P.K. Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 10 hours ago, woolley said: It's those safeguards again! Yet already the EU is telling those countries how they can run their affairs. I see they have also "approved" Italy's budget now. How noble. How sensible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 23 hours ago, P.K. said: As Leader of the Opposition he has had absolutely no say whatsoever in the Brexit negotiations. That's true, isn't it? @Freggyragh Answer please.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 9 hours ago, woolley said: The public? No they didn’t. It was foisted upon them. So in your opinion Joe Public should have had a referendum on the Maastricht treaty where the UK came back with the best deal in the best trading bloc on the planet? Off you go. Let's hear you try and justify that load of nonsense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 (edited) Sensible stuff from a Guardian columnist. Making some very salient points... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/20/national-emergency-brexit-vote-westminister And here too, with regard to Bojo's much-maligned comments about the burqa... https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/20/boris-johnson-cleared-over-burqa-comments Edited December 21, 2018 by quilp Damn link to the first article reading 404... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 hour ago, P.K. said: @Freggyragh Answer please.... Of course he has no say - but he has a platform and he hasn’t used it. He’s been against the EU all his political life, so he hasn’t bothered to campaign against Brexit. He is an ideological extremist. He’s never had a proper job, and never had much success at anything except promoting himself and his fellow travellers. I’m suspicious of a lot of the muck thrown his way by the right-wing press, but he did support the IRA right through the period when they were blowing up his political colleagues from the other side. He did support the Israeli Embassy bombers. He did support Militant. He has got a dubious record on anti-semitism. He has proposed direct rule for the IoM. He has unelected peers in his shadow cabinet. He supports the renewal of trident. I could go on. In my opinion he is even more dangerous than his anti-climate change lunatic brother who writes weather scare stories for the Daily Express. At least he had a job - (a weather forecasting company that Woody or Mystic Mogg could have beaten for accuracy) - even if his company folded with half a million in irrecoverable debt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 7 hours ago, P.K. said: So in your opinion Joe Public should have had a referendum on the Maastricht treaty where the UK came back with the best deal in the best trading bloc on the planet? Off you go. Let's hear you try and justify that load of nonsense... The IOM signed the Maastricht treaty also in its own right. I wrote and broadcast at the time...No one was interested. No one cared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 6 hours ago, Freggyragh said: Of course he has no say - but he has a platform and he hasn’t used it. He’s been against the EU all his political life, so he hasn’t bothered to campaign against Brexit. He is an ideological extremist. He’s never had a proper job, and never had much success at anything except promoting himself and his fellow travellers. I’m suspicious of a lot of the muck thrown his way by the right-wing press, but he did support the IRA right through the period when they were blowing up his political colleagues from the other side. He did support the Israeli Embassy bombers. He did support Militant. He has got a dubious record on anti-semitism. He has proposed direct rule for the IoM. He has unelected peers in his shadow cabinet. He supports the renewal of trident. I could go on. In my opinion he is even more dangerous than his anti-climate change lunatic brother who writes weather scare stories for the Daily Express. At least he had a job - (a weather forecasting company that Woody or Mystic Mogg could have beaten for accuracy) - even if his company folded with half a million in irrecoverable debt. does he........ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 7 hours ago, quilp said: Sensible stuff from a Guardian columnist. Making some very salient points... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/20/national-emergency-brexit-vote-westminister And here too, with regard to Bojo's much-maligned comments about the burqa... https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/20/boris-johnson-cleared-over-burqa-comments It's part of our culture to take the piss out of religion. It always has been and probably always will be. However if Bojo's comments are preventing some of his constituents from attending his surgeries then he's failing as an MP. So nothing new there then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 6 hours ago, Freggyragh said: Of course he has no say - but he has a platform and he hasn’t used it. He’s been against the EU all his political life, so he hasn’t bothered to campaign against Brexit. He is an ideological extremist. He’s never had a proper job, and never had much success at anything except promoting himself and his fellow travellers. I’m suspicious of a lot of the muck thrown his way by the right-wing press, but he did support the IRA right through the period when they were blowing up his political colleagues from the other side. He did support the Israeli Embassy bombers. He did support Militant. He has got a dubious record on anti-semitism. He has proposed direct rule for the IoM. He has unelected peers in his shadow cabinet. He supports the renewal of trident. I could go on. In my opinion he is even more dangerous than his anti-climate change lunatic brother who writes weather scare stories for the Daily Express. At least he had a job - (a weather forecasting company that Woody or Mystic Mogg could have beaten for accuracy) - even if his company folded with half a million in irrecoverable debt. You missed the important point. A half decent opposition would have ripped the current totally useless administration and their so-called negotiations to shreds. The Maybot can say "My deal or no deal" because she knows, as does Corbyn, that a vote of No Confidence could well bring her government down. But it's likely the tories would win the election that followed. As I see it the reason we have the worst administration I have ever known is because the opposition are equally as bad... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 (edited) On 12/17/2018 at 9:10 PM, P.K. said: Oh dear. Not the hackneyed and totally debunked "sovereignty" card being played yet again! That nice PK did a complete hatchet job on that load of old nonsense. The facts of the matter tell a completely different story. Plus an excellent demonstration on why the likes of the Barclay brothers are willing to pay a wedge to keep the presses rolling to "get their message across" to the idiots who buy The Daily Telegraph and are unlikely to bother to check if they're being shafted by the Brexiteers yet again: Truth to tell (I don't lie. Unlike the brexiteers I don't have to...) my shadowing your return to this field of sorrow was a complete and utter coincidence and nothing more! I hope you find it as funny as I do.... Don't you think that the Workers Directives issued by the EU are really beneficial for workers everywhere? As a liberal I like legislation for the betterment of those working at the coalface. Don't you.....? You have not and cannot debunk the “sovereignty card”. The facts of the matter do not tell a "completely different story". You see, whether it is 50%, 25% or 5% is immaterial to anyone who believes in the nation state. Being sovereign is like being pregnant. Either you are or you are not. I can see that this is meaningless to people like yourself and Freggy despite thousands having laid down their lives over the years for the independence of these islands from enslavement. Your preferred path may seem attractive for short term expediency but beware the siren voices of integration and “ever closer union”. It will all end in tears. Also, once more, you speak only of trade whereas trade is but one aspect of “the project”. The more you call people idiots for their beliefs, the greater the doubts you cast about yourself. You do lie, by the way. Yes of course your stalking me is funny. UK law exceeds workers standards laid down by the EU in some aspects. Who is to say that it won’t continue to do so in the future and become the gold standard of employment rights? I don’t like any legislation that originates on foreign shores. Sovereignty, you see. We do not need external organisations telling us how to conduct our affairs. Are they supposed to know better? We are all grown up. Edited December 21, 2018 by woolley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 25 minutes ago, woolley said: You have not and cannot debunk the “sovereignty card”. The facts of the matter do not tell a "completely different story". You see, whether it is 50%, 25% or 5% is immaterial to anyone who believes in the nation state. Being sovereign is like being pregnant. Either you are or you are not. I can see that this is meaningless to people like yourself and Freggy despite thousands having laid down their lives over the years for the independence of these islands from enslavement. Your preferred path may seem attractive for short term expediency but beware the siren voices of integration and “ever closer union”. It will all end in tears. Also, once more, you speak only of trade whereas trade is but one aspect of “the project”. The more you call people idiots for their beliefs, the greater the doubts you cast about yourself. How totally ridiculous. Typical brexiteer playing the "thousands died to prevent our enslavement" patriotism stuff and nonsense card. Certainly proving that they're headed for "...the last refuge of a scoundrel" if they're not there already! Pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 On 12/19/2018 at 10:26 PM, pongo said: Corbyn and Miliband before him abandoned or, at least, seemed to abandon the moderate centre. That enabled the eccentric right on the Tory side. There being no sensible centre to hold. I think that Blair and Cleggy sank that ship between them. Toxic now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Just now, P.K. said: How totally ridiculous. Typical brexiteer playing the "thousands died to prevent our enslavement" patriotism stuff and nonsense card. Certainly proving that they're headed for "...the last refuge of a scoundrel" if they're not there already! Pathetic. As always. Never, ever addresses the issue which is that the EU is not just a trade area. If it was that would be OK. It interferes with the internal affairs of countries treaty by treaty with ever increasing detriment. Maybe it will retreat to being a FTA in the future. All well and good. Otherwise it is ending in tears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Quote Never, ever addresses the issue which is that the EU is not just a trade area. If it was that would be OK. With trade comes common regulation. It can never just be about trade. Regulation involves agreements which some see as "red tape" and "them telling us what to do". I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: With trade comes common regulation. It can never just be about trade. Regulation involves agreements which some see as "red tape" and "them telling us what to do". I don't. This is what they want you to believe! No other FTA acts like this one. Parliament! Flag! Anthem! Currency! Court of Justice! It's a trojan horse invading all areas of the judicial, political and economic life of member states. I understand that some people are content with that and actively believe it's a good thing. The other 95% need to wake up fast. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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