woody2 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: With trade comes common regulation. It can never just be about trade. Regulation involves agreements which some see as "red tape" and "them telling us what to do". I don't. something that doesn't apply to the eu........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Quote something that doesn't apply to the eu........ What doesn't? What are you on about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Quote This is what they want you to believe! Fabulous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 12 minutes ago, woolley said: This is what they want you to believe! No other FTA acts like this one. Parliament! Flag! Anthem! Currency! Court of Justice! It's a trojan horse invading all areas of the judicial, political and economic life of member states. I understand that some people are content with that and actively believe it's a good thing. The other 95% need to wake up fast. It's not what they want you to believe. It's how it is. Any future trade deals the UK strikes, looking a long long way ahead here, will have certain conditions attached as well. Simple as. As I posted previously the Italian populist government, elected on bollox that even Farage, Gove and Johnson would be proud of, is probabaly more of a threat to the EU than brexit is. Hence they were made to take a less stupid path. Admit it. Like the UK right wing press, which is to say pretty much all of it, the EU workers rights directives, which the UK could opt out of, is the issue that pisses you off about the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 view before the bbc edit it........ Quote Ms Osborne was interviewed by David Dimbleby, who is guest-editing BBC Radio 4's Today programme on Saturday. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46655969 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 15 hours ago, P.K. said: It's not what they want you to believe. It's how it is. Any future trade deals the UK strikes, looking a long long way ahead here, will have certain conditions attached as well. Simple as. As I posted previously the Italian populist government, elected on bollox that even Farage, Gove and Johnson would be proud of, is probabaly more of a threat to the EU than brexit is. Hence they were made to take a less stupid path. Admit it. Like the UK right wing press, which is to say pretty much all of it, the EU workers rights directives, which the UK could opt out of, is the issue that pisses you off about the EU. You simply do not understand the issue that you bang on about day and night. There is no other free trade area in the world that behaves like a state in ways that the EU increasingly behaves and it needs to be reined in. You will not accept that. We joined a free trade area "The Common Market". If the Italian government wants to take a "stupid" path, then that is up to the Italian government and ultimately the Italian people who can dispense with the government if they so choose. It is not up to some bureaucracy in Brussels to usurp their singular sovereignty and direct them or "make" them. Same goes for Greece. Same goes for Poland and Hungary. Same goes for every other country. Sovereignty is indivisible. The EU workers rights directives have no effect on me because it is minutiae in the bigger picture. Everyone I have ever employed has far superior terms to anything issued in Brussels or London for that matter. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 16 hours ago, woolley said: You have not and cannot debunk the “sovereignty card”. The facts of the matter do not tell a "completely different story". You see, whether it is 50%, 25% or 5% is immaterial to anyone who believes in the nation state. Being sovereign is like being pregnant. Either you are or you are not. I can see that this is meaningless to people like yourself and Freggy despite thousands having laid down their lives over the years for the independence of these islands from enslavement. Your preferred path may seem attractive for short term expediency but beware the siren voices of integration and “ever closer union”. It will all end in tears. Also, once more, you speak only of trade whereas trade is but one aspect of “the project”. The more you call people idiots for their beliefs, the greater the doubts you cast about yourself. You do lie, by the way. Yes of course your stalking me is funny. UK law exceeds workers standards laid down by the EU in some aspects. Who is to say that it won’t continue to do so in the future and become the gold standard of employment rights? I don’t like any legislation that originates on foreign shores. Sovereignty, you see. We do not need external organisations telling us how to conduct our affairs. Are they supposed to know better? We are all grown up. Have a reality check. ". You see, whether it is 50%, 25% or 5% is immaterial to anyone who believes in the nation state." No it isn't immaterial. If the figure was 50% then sensible, rational people unfettered by prejudice would start to think there is an issue. But at 13% the only issue is the likes of The Telegraph deliberately lying to their readership on an issue of national importance. Multiply that by The Daily Wail, The Excess, The Murdoch Mouthpiece etc etc and it becomes a major issue. People taken in by this "sovereignty" nonsense will be nodding in approval and posting "yap yap" on reading your post. You claim the EU is top heavy but I would expect that from the biggest and best. Plus on the "sovereignty" nonsense you seem to have forgotten how the UK can opt out of EU legislation if it chooses to do so. Bit of an oversight on yout part that one..... Now fess up about "workers ditectives" and your dislike of them in keeping with the UK right wing press, which is to say pretty much all of it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 16 hours ago, ballaughbiker said: What doesn't? What are you on about? common regulations- they are different throughout the eu...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 32 minutes ago, woolley said: If the Italian government wants to take a "stupid" path, then that is up to the Italian government and ultimately the Italian people who can dispense with the government if they so choose. It is not up to some bureaucracy in Brussels to usurp their singular sovereignty and direct them or "make" them. Same goes for Greece. Same goes for Poland and Hungary. Same goes for every other country. Sovereignty is indivisible. france has just got itself out of "special measures" it's been spending more than italy..... then last week madron gave away 10 billion euros going over the 103% spending cap- no mention from the eu....... level playing field the eu is not..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Quote common regulations- they are different throughout the eu...... If that is the case, where does Haw Haw's message that we "can't make our own law's" and "they are ordering us about" come from? It's bollox of course but millions wanted to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 1 minute ago, ballaughbiker said: If that is the case, where does Haw Haw's message that we "can't make our own law's" and "they are ordering us about" come from? It's bollox of course but millions wanted to believe. uk can't pass any law unless it complies with eu law....... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 1 minute ago, woody2 said: uk can't pass any law unless it complies with eu law....... .............while lots of the others do a "Nelson" when it comes to EU law. UK idiot civil service gold plates them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Substituting woody's signature simplicity with this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 31 minutes ago, P.K. said: Have a reality check. ". You see, whether it is 50%, 25% or 5% is immaterial to anyone who believes in the nation state." No it isn't immaterial. If the figure was 50% then sensible, rational people unfettered by prejudice would start to think there is an issue. But at 13% the only issue is the likes of The Telegraph deliberately lying to their readership on an issue of national importance. Multiply that by The Daily Wail, The Excess, The Murdoch Mouthpiece etc etc and it becomes a major issue. People taken in by this "sovereignty" nonsense will be nodding in approval and posting "yap yap" on reading your post. You claim the EU is top heavy but I would expect that from the biggest and best. Plus on the "sovereignty" nonsense you seem to have forgotten how the UK can opt out of EU legislation if it chooses to do so. Bit of an oversight on yout part that one..... No. The sovereignty erosion in the EU moves glacially but it is proceeding treaty by treaty. You just don't value national sovereignty, simple as that. Top heavy, biggest and best? You must think IOM Govt is world class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: Substituting woody's signature simplicity with this Thank you. That confirms that sovereignty is severely compromised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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