P.K. Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, woolley said: .............while lots of the others do a "Nelson" when it comes to EU law. UK idiot civil service gold plates them. They are simply doing what their democratically elected ministers are telling them to do.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 1 minute ago, P.K. said: They are simply doing what their democratically elected ministers are telling them to do.... If you believe that then everything else you write comes more clearly into perspective. As it's almost Christmas I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are joking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 (edited) Quote Thank you. That confirms that sovereignty is severely compromised. Hyperbole. All common regulation involves modifying "sovereignty" to a degree. That's its purpose. Edited December 22, 2018 by ballaughbiker spel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 1 minute ago, woolley said: If you believe that then everything else you write comes more clearly into perspective. As it's almost Christmas I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are joking. So you don't know that the HoC are the only ones who can make laws! It's called "sovereignty" you know.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 1 minute ago, ballaughbiker said: Hyperbole. All common regulation involves modifying "sovereignty" to a degree. That's its purpose. No it doesn't. Typical EU obfuscation to mislead. Sovereignty is indivisible. States can agree standards and regulations and treaties at a national level that will achieve everything that the supranational apparatus does and more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Just now, P.K. said: So you don't know that the HoC are the only ones who can make laws! It's called "sovereignty" you know.... The civil service runs the country long term. Politicians are transitory. HoC not the only ones who can make laws. That's what the whole debate is about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Just now, woolley said: The civil service runs the country long term. Politicians are transitory. HoC not the only ones who can make laws. That's what the whole debate is about. Sure policy rarely survives an election but the HoC are the only ones who can make UK laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 And back to the definition of the concept of sovereignty. Round and round we go. Even if your concept is agreed, we enter into treaties that we help construct voluntarily. That being the case we are choosing to modify our "sovereignty". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 1 minute ago, P.K. said: Sure policy rarely survives an election but the HoC are the only ones who can make UK laws. Many of which are nodded through without proper scrutiny because they originated in Brussels and everyone knows they are untouchable. Nothing trumps EU law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: And back to the definition of the concept of sovereignty. Round and round we go. Even if your concept is agreed, we enter into treaties that we help construct voluntarily. That being the case we are choosing to modify our "sovereignty". No we are not. We are choosing to take a course of action together or agree a settlement of a dispute. We are not ceding the power to do so to an external construct, nor are we abrogating the power to do as we see fit unilaterally in the future. ETA: I had interpreted your meaning as pertaining to our signing of other treaties. On re-reading your post I see now that you are referring to the signing of EU treaties. Indeed, these treaties from Maastricht onwards are anti-nation and erode sovereignty, so they should never have been put together by the "ever closer union" zealots, and certainly should never have been signed. How dare these people consign centuries of independence and the birthright of their children to the dustbin of history. Edited December 22, 2018 by woolley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 7 minutes ago, woolley said: Many of which are nodded through without proper scrutiny because they originated in Brussels and everyone knows they are untouchable. Nothing trumps EU law. Bullshit. You may have noticed we're not part of Shengen.... "KABOOOM!!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, P.K. said: Bullshit. You may have noticed we're not part of Shengen.... "KABOOOM!!!" With relevance to what? What the hell are you on about now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, woolley said: With relevance to what? What the hell are you on about now? That was the "sovereignty" so-called "argument" being blown out of the water..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 51 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: Substituting woody's signature simplicity with this yawn....... 56 minutes ago, woody2 said: uk can't pass any law unless it complies with eu law....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 19 minutes ago, P.K. said: That was the "sovereignty" so-called "argument" being blown out of the water..... No it wasn't. Have you heard of the multi-speed Europe? We got an opt out like we did for the euro. Doesn't mean that there is no aspiration to complete these projects in the future. As I've said before, the EU probes and pushes against the defences of the nation state, taking what it can and then strategically pausing or withdrawing before returning for more. If they didn't do this the objections of one state could derail the whole show and provoke the detractors elsewhere. This way they can move things along and pick off the laggards at a more auspicious moment. Do you really think that Brussels would not want everyone in Schengen and the euro? When they have reduced nations to mere regions of the EU, they will have the power to do it. It will take a long time but they have much patience. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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