woolley Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Oh dear. What have I done? Merry Christmas, Bazza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 40 minutes ago, woolley said: Oh dear. What have I done? Merry Christmas, Bazza. Merry Christmas to Woolley! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 xmas message from....... lock-him-up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 no spare capacity claimed sir bazza....... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46704522 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 meanwhile in germany...... German army 'could recruit EU citizens' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46692176 let's hope its people who voted remoan children first....... not another one...... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46705252 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 3 hours ago, woody2 said: no spare capacity claimed sir bazza....... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46704522 Please explain what you mean... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 3 hours ago, woody2 said: meanwhile in germany...... German army 'could recruit EU citizens' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46692176 let's hope its people who voted remoan children first....... not another one...... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46705252 Germany has been restricted to enlisting only Germans now this is changing. Germany has long been short of population hence many migrants and guest workers. Nothing sinister. UK employs Commonwealth people in its forces. Not many years ago most British soldiers were Indian with Irish as runners up in terms of numbers. Many of the UK merchant seaman were Indian. Been going on for centuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 4 hours ago, woody2 said: no spare capacity claimed sir bazza....... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46704522 I have chartered a few hundred ships in my time but not recently and never RoRo ferries etc. However although the charter party or contract proforma are unknown to me there seems to be nothing unusual in the arrangement. It is quite normal to charter tonnage for consecutive voyages, round trips or a Contract of Affreightment (COA)...It is quite normal to charter a ship for part cargo with options and to have the option to sub-charter. Everything is dictated by the market for that ship at the perceived time and is all ruled by price and availability. When a ship is time chartered ie so much a day/month, the charterer becomes the Disponent Owner and it is like they own the ship. The UK Govt appears to have paid up front to hire space and scheduling with the option to sub-let if the tonnage is not needed. This is absolutely normal in shipping. Many ships are chartered according to various ranges ie in grain trading one gets "1/2 Up and BA completing BA and/or BB" That is 1/2 ports up the River Plate completing Buenos Aires and/or Bahia Blanca (Down the coast). You get told at the last minute. In the USA it is "USNH" being a range of ports north of Cape Hatteras. In Europe we get "A-H" or Antwerp Hamburg Range. or "ARA" meaning Antwerp, Rotterdam, Amsterdam range". An even wider option is the Skaw (North of Jutland) and Cape Pasero (Lower end of Sicily) These ferries will have something similarly open ended pertinent to their custom of trade. The UK Govt appears to have entered into an open ended agreement with a certain amount of funds guaranteed or "up front" to book/charter space on tonnage to be nominated (tbn) with the option of sub-letting. The shipowners will get their money as contracted for both in terms of space and extra scheduling and on that basis they will ensure that they have the necessary capacity or have the option themselves to charter in that capacity. I would say they already have it in hand in house as to sub charter in against a contract would usually require approval from the head charterer. The UK Govt has "fixed" with quality owners and quality tonnage rather than throwing it open to the market with all its attendant doubts and checking up on suppliers. Another factor is that you get what you pay for. Shipping people haggle a lot but governments, the UN World Food Aid etc pay for their strict terms. There will be a strict contract and no haggling usually so for that you pay for no haggle terms. Shipping is a global business. There is practically no delineation between countries just law and agreements. Deriding this deal because the ships are "European" is pointless. One is British anyway. Merchant ships do most of the work for governments. Over 100 ships were chartered in the Falklands and many chartered RoRo/RoPax ferries took the British military from Germany to the Gulf. My observation is that the shipownes must have been given a guarantee of minimum payment up front with options and that the Owners have taken this trade because they are pretty certain it is going to be a no-deal Brexit and more than likely this sort of business will bring plenty of repeats. There is a derivatives or freight market futures/indices run by the Baltic Exchange but I am old ships, rust buckets and bulkers and that is a closed book to me although it is possible to cover your chartering requirements by speculating on the derivatives. I do not know if RoRo tonnage is covered by the indices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 3 hours ago, Barrie Stevens said: Please explain what you mean... just highlighting the remoan camp lies........ plenty of tonnage available...... it also outs pk's claim of shortages or that the eu won't sell to the uk anymore..... dover will still be a crap port though......... its not like we haven't seen queues when been a member of the eu...... but 2 hgv's in a layby the media will be in full panic mode....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 another remoan camp lie........ it turns out nearly all car parts come in by container ship and are stacked at the docks/yards until they are needed by factory...... the just in time is a myth...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 2 hours ago, mojomonkey said: you'll be conscripted first.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 1 hour ago, woody2 said: another remoan camp lie........ it turns out nearly all car parts come in by container ship and are stacked at the docks/yards until they are needed by factory...... the just in time is a myth...... No one has said that there is a shortage of tonnage. The Govt is buying freight space in advance from trusted operators. Just in time is a key practice in many industries now. You supermarket goods are often packed and labelled and sent across at the last minute. Many component parts make several journeys to and from UK to Continent and back. I do not see why but they do and it is causing worry and some stockpiling. Using the term Remoaner is now old hat and out of date. We have all moved on and it is getting more serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 Quote We have all moved on and it is getting more serious. Some of us have. Others still love to ridicule and name call like they did at primary school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 http://www.newsincyprus.com/news/159758/british-ships-avoid-flying-the-union-jack-and-replacing-with-cyprus-flags P&O transferring two ferries from UK to Cyprus flag for tax advantages... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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