So the UK is finished says Theresa Mayhem

[woody2]

32 minutes ago, woolley said:

I often agree with much of what you say, but I strongly disagree here. Briefly, the fear is totally justified to those who believe in self-determination of nations, and I suggest that unless they are being scared out of their wits by pro EU propaganda, most British people would prefer all of their laws to be made inside Britain and not outside. I struggle in vain to get this across to PK, but I would have thought that you could grasp the concept. I accept that there are fringe interest groups such as the SNP who would not, but they are being quite disingenuous for their own nefarious electoral reasons, as nationalists, in claiming to prefer to take orders from Brussels. They want independence for Scotland, right?

What people "typically feel in the reality of their own lives" on an everyday level is quite separate to how people view what is proceeding discreetly but inexorably in the shadows. It is a work in progress. Don't take my word, just look at the track record. Common market to economic community, to single European act. ECJ to single currency, to no borders between states, to some vetoes replaced by qualified majority voting, European Union presidents (4 of them!), foreign policy with embassies, and so it goes on. Euro defence force? Closer political union? etc, etc. Yes, the UK has opt outs on Schengen and the Euro, but it was not for the want of trying by idiots - including many of our own - to get us on board with those too. You can be assured that these derogations will be seen as temporary blips in Brussels. Mere bumps in the road to be revisited at a more auspicious time. If you are content with a United States of Europe then that is all well and good, but if not then don't just sleepwalk into it. And make no mistake; that is where this carnival is heading. Far from fears being unjustified there are profound and long-lasting implications at stake.

vetos you say........

[woody2]

1 hour ago, Barrie Stevens said:

I was under the impression that even on the IOM there are food banks and that they are under strain?

 

we live in a society in which people use a £700 iphone to check when their benefits have been paid, check when the foodbanks are open and top up netflix and sky........

hardly poor...... 

[P.K.]

44 minutes ago, woolley said:

He said: We already have record numbers of old folks and children living in poverty you idiot. 

Which is lies damn lies and statistics. I am not denying that there are people struggling. There is however nothing like the levels of poverty we have experienced in the past. They are talking about relative poverty which is not the same thing as absolute poverty.

Of course they're not like the levels of the past. In exactly the same way that child mortality rates are not like the levels of the past. Like lifespan levels are way up compared to past times. Apples and oranges.

The right-wingers on here, which is to say the large majority, hate Blair with a vengeance. So I think the start of his first administration is not a bad baseline.

 

[P.K.]

1 hour ago, woolley said:

I often agree with much of what you say, but I strongly disagree here. Briefly, the fear is totally justified to those who believe in self-determination of nations, and I suggest that unless they are being scared out of their wits by pro EU propaganda, most British people would prefer all of their laws to be made inside Britain and not outside. I struggle in vain to get this across to PK, but I would have thought that you could grasp the concept. 

Cheeky.

I understand the concept but I think you overestimate how much folks care unless whipped up by lying rabble-rousers.

The EU reigned in the excesses of the populist Italian idiots.

What's your view?

[woody2]

35 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Of course they're not like the levels of the past

 

make ya mind up......

[Max Power]

1 hour ago, woolley said:

I often agree with much of what you say, but I strongly disagree here. Briefly, the fear is totally justified to those who believe in self-determination of nations, and I suggest that unless they are being scared out of their wits by pro EU propaganda, most British people would prefer all of their laws to be made inside Britain and not outside. I struggle in vain to get this across to PK, but I would have thought that you could grasp the concept. I accept that there are fringe interest groups such as the SNP who would not, but they are being quite disingenuous for their own nefarious electoral reasons, as nationalists, in claiming to prefer to take orders from Brussels. They want independence for Scotland, right?

What people "typically feel in the reality of their own lives" on an everyday level is quite separate to how people view what is proceeding discreetly but inexorably in the shadows. It is a work in progress. Don't take my word, just look at the track record. Common market to economic community, to single European act. ECJ to single currency, to no borders between states, to some vetoes replaced by qualified majority voting, European Union presidents (4 of them!), foreign policy with embassies, and so it goes on. Euro defence force? Closer political union? etc, etc. Yes, the UK has opt outs on Schengen and the Euro, but it was not for the want of trying by idiots - including many of our own - to get us on board with those too. You can be assured that these derogations will be seen as temporary blips in Brussels. Mere bumps in the road to be revisited at a more auspicious time. If you are content with a United States of Europe then that is all well and good, but if not then don't just sleepwalk into it. And make no mistake; that is where this carnival is heading. Far from fears being unjustified there are profound and long-lasting implications at stake.

This would be far from being a USE. We would be dictated to by around 30 appointed officials and ratified by the elected MEPs as we are now. The EU would be more of a soviet style of administration! Woolley is right and this is a long game, these little hiccups like countries not joining the Euro or Shengen are temporary, all will conform eventually. Pan European fiscal and monetary union will be achieved sooner or later. Is it just possible that the refugee crisis has been manufactured to undermine and distract the EU population while some of the more substantial policies are introduced? Britain has the longest history of democracy in Europe, most if not all of the other countries have recently emerged from dictatorships and absolute monarchies, they are about to slip back into what they fought to escape! 

[woody2]

4 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Cheeky.

I understand the concept but I think you overestimate how much folks care unless whipped up by lying rabble-rousers.

The EU reigned in the excesses of the populist Italian idiots.

What's your view?

how about madron spending more than italy??????????????????????????????

what have the eu done??????????????????????????????????????

Edited December 31, 2018 by woody2

[woolley]

1 hour ago, P.K. said:

Of course they're not like the levels of the past.

But they are record levels in any case, yes? Guardian logic again.

[P.K.]

12 minutes ago, woolley said:

But they are record levels in any case, yes? Guardian logic again.

Brexit bollox.

I suggested the start of Blair's first administration as a baseline.

What part of that is it you can't understand...?

[P.K.]

Waiting on your view of the EU saving the Italians from a populist movement that can never deliver on their promises.

Sound familiar?

It should....

[quilp]

2 hours ago, P.K. said:

Waiting on your view of the EU saving the Italians from a populist movement that can never deliver on their promises...

Any chance you can provide a link for this claim? I've looked everywhere but can't find the story...

[quilp]

4 hours ago, P.K. said:

The EU reigned in the excesses of the populist Italian idiots.

And this too, a link would be handy. 

Edited December 31, 2018 by quilp

[P.K.]

13 hours ago, quilp said:

Any chance you can provide a link for this claim? I've looked everywhere but can't find the story...

 

13 hours ago, quilp said:

And this too, a link would be handy. 

After your constant totally unfounded personal attacks trying to potray me as some kind of ersatz public schoolboy sneering at the proles and the way you try to promote racist islamaphobes like Pat Condell you can go and do one. Definitely not wanted on voyage.

I owe you and your kind absolutely nothing.

Zip, zilch, zero, nada.

Go and pollute somewhere else....

[quilp]

Prick of the first order. 

[woolley]

On 12/30/2018 at 1:09 PM, P.K. said:

We already have record numbers of old folks and children living in poverty you idiot. That's why we have food banks.

 

20 hours ago, woolley said:

You're the idiot if that's what you think. Guardian has a lot to answer for.

 

18 hours ago, P.K. said:

Of course they're not like the levels of the past. In exactly the same way that child mortality rates are not like the levels of the past. Like lifespan levels are way up compared to past times. Apples and oranges.

The right-wingers on here, which is to say the large majority, hate Blair with a vengeance. So I think the start of his first administration is not a bad baseline.

 

 

16 hours ago, woolley said:

But they are record levels in any case, yes? Guardian logic again.

 

16 hours ago, P.K. said:

Brexit bollox.

I suggested the start of Blair's first administration as a baseline.

What part of that is it you can't understand...?

I understand very well, PK. You didn't say "since 1997" when you brought the subject up. You said merely "record levels", which means, er, "record levels". You only moved the goalposts when other posters jumped on you. You were losing 3-0 after 70 minutes and so you conveniently decided that we should only count the final 20 minutes. As usual.

It's not "Brexit bollox". It isn't even anything remotely to do with Brexit is it? It was just a straightforward lefty liberal lie lifted from the Guardian or the BBC. I heard all about poverty in the depression of the 1930s from my elders back in the day, and I studied the Poor Laws and the workhouse regime, so don't tell me there are record levels of poverty now. It simply is not true. It's a lie.