woolley Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, pongo said: Gordon Brown and his advisor Ed Balls kept the UK out of the Euro. The '5 economic tests' were drawn up in conjunction with leading economists in business and the City. Today Parliament should (and obviously will) listen to the needs of business and the City. Some on the Brexit side argue that Brexit should not be about the economy. But that, clearly, is stupid. So you say that Parliament should listen to business and the City and in support of this contention you advocate taking counsel from the very people who told us it would be the end of the world if we stayed outside the Euro. Are you sure? The "5 economic tests" for joining the Euro were about as real as Corbyn's "6 Brexit tests", i.e not real at all. There are for more important issues than the economy involved, but the economy will survive in any event. Edited January 6, 2019 by woolley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 3 hours ago, Max Power said: Did Churchill have the numbers to back up his opposition to Hitler? They will all laugh or seethe at this, but it is getting much closer to the crux of the matter than all of their banging on about the economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 3 hours ago, P.K. said: Mind you, decisions on Herr Hitler were not exactly economic! Absolutely! Very slowly you are making progress. I'm encouraged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 2 hours ago, P.K. said: Are you saying that the Opposition of Her Maj's Government shouldn't have used the "humble address" to force the Maybot to put the legal ramifications of brexit into the public domain? I think I'll leave it there.... It did no good whatsoever, so there was no point. It also set what might in the future turn out to be a dangerous precedent and that was why it was resisted. It certainly didn't bring new information into the public domain. Not one iota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 2 hours ago, Freggyragh said: If it was down to me I’d opt for the age-old British solution of partitioning the kingdom into two new states with a very hard border around the leave areas. You seem to be very chippy about the subject of partition, Freggy. I mean, I agree that it was a totally stupid idea in Ireland with dire ramifications that have become a running sore for nigh on a century, but you seem to thrust it into the debate periodically where it has little or no context. Are you from Pettigo or somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Freggyragh said: Happy to oblige: Furthermore, since 2009 the EU has its own fundamental rights legal instrument - the EU Charter of Fundamental rights. Why does a humble free trade bloc need one of these? This is the kind of stuff that is roundly despised. Genuine free trade area, no problem. Bring it on! All of the bollox that goes with it, no thanks! Edited January 7, 2019 by woolley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 2 hours ago, P.K. said: I didn't want to get drawn into this nonsense. However.... Early contender for contribution of the year and definitely for chuckle of the evening. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 1 hour ago, woolley said: There are for more important issues than the economy involved, but the economy will survive in any event. There aren’t really. The economy is not in a very good state. The UK’s debt is running at about 85% of GDP - pretty high for peacetime. The currency has been shedding value for a number of years and real earnings have only just started to recover from the biggest drop in over a century. People are looking for someone to blame. Since the Liebour government bailed out the reckless bankers the super-wealthy have skilfully managed to redirect a certain percentage of the population’s anger towards immigrants and globalism. There’s very little mention these days of the likes of Fred the Shred and his massive pension paid for indirectly out of public funds, in fact, bankers and hedge-fund managers and their erstwhile colleagues are now held up as heroes of Brexit. It’s a familiar story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 2 hours ago, woolley said: There are for more important issues than the economy involved, but the economy will survive in any event. But, as ever, the cost is NEVER mentioned. But as long as words are cheap.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 1 hour ago, woolley said: Why does a humble free trade bloc need one of these? This is the kind of stuff that is roundly despised. Genuine free trade area, no problem. Bring it on! All of the bollox that goes with it, no thanks! It’s based on the European Convention on Human Rights and the European Social Charter - both of which are Council of Europe conventions, not EU conventions. The Council of Europe isn’t a trading block. There are 47 members of the Council of Europe. The U.K. was one of the 10 founding members. The Council was set up in 1949 to protect human rights and the rule of law in Europe after the horrors of the 1940s and to prevent the spread of totalitarian communism. The drafting of ECHR was guided by a U.K. Conservative politician, Sir David Maxwell Fyfe, who had been a prosecutor at Nuremberg. They go further than similar UN resolutions in that they have, in theory, mechanisms for ensuring compliance. I don’t think you’ve read any of these documents in any detail, because I don’t think you’ll find anything in them to upset you. The Treaty of Lisbon wasn’t much more than a formal mass ratification by the EU of principles of law already covered by Council of Europe membership, except for the bits about collective defence and security co-operation which spooked the Irish and were subsequently dropped before Ireland signed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 2 hours ago, woolley said: It did no good whatsoever, so there was no point. It also set what might in the future turn out to be a dangerous precedent and that was why it was resisted. It certainly didn't bring new information into the public domain. Not one iota. Now THATS funny! An avid brexiteer who bangs on and on about the myth that is "sovereignty" pushes back on those proving that parliament is sovereign. Sometimes you must wonder on whose side you're on? Laughable! In fact the best grin I've had for a while. Always heartening when folks contradict themselves... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 12 hours ago, Freggyragh said: I should add, that I have no obligation, moral or patriotic, to get behind the UK’s referendum result. I don’t live in the U.K. and I didn’t get to vote in the referendum. If it was down to me I’d opt for the age-old British solution of partitioning the kingdom into two new states with a very hard border around the leave areas. you socialist trump...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 7 hours ago, Freggyragh said: There aren’t really. The economy is not in a very good state. The UK’s debt is running at about 85% of GDP - pretty high for peacetime. The currency has been shedding value for a number of years and real earnings have only just started to recover from the biggest drop in over a century. People are looking for someone to blame. Since the Liebour government bailed out the reckless bankers the super-wealthy have skilfully managed to redirect a certain percentage of the population’s anger towards immigrants and globalism. There’s very little mention these days of the likes of Fred the Shred and his massive pension paid for indirectly out of public funds, in fact, bankers and hedge-fund managers and their erstwhile colleagues are now held up as heroes of Brexit. It’s a familiar story. it is........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 its going to be a interesting 3 months....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Date for the vote on May's deal is confirmed for next Tuesday, 15th January 2019: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46777987 What's the odds on it be called off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.