So the UK is finished says Theresa Mayhem

[Freggyragh]

1 hour ago, TheTeapot said:

Is woody banned? I hope not.

Please nooooo! 

[P.K.]

8 hours ago, woolley said:

I love your vivid imagination, PK. Please don't ever change!

Just demonstrating how easy it is to invent bogeymen so-called "elites"....

[P.K.]

10 hours ago, woolley said:

I love your vivid imagination, PK. Please don't ever change!

You think I have a vivid imagination???!!! With the stuff you come out with I sometimes think you've been on the recreational pharmaceuticals!  

It makes me laugh when you plug The Maybots so-called "deal" when it was actually put together by Olly Robbins for the UK side and Sabine Weyand, the EU 2 I/C Brexit negotiator. Not something you would read about in the UK right wing press, which is to say pretty much all of it.

It was Weyand who announced the talks were over the day before the HoC voted to send the Maybot back to Brussels. And who can blame her? As someone put it:

“Such a contrast between EU negotiator Sabine Weyand – fluent, detail rich, serious, knowledgeable – and the succession of defiantly ignorant Tory MPs spouting their slogans”

And yet despite being told that's "end of" they STILL sent her back to Brussels as though the UK has loads of leverage to deploy. When will they realise that any leverage only exists in the fevered imaginations of the bug-eyed brexit loons who infest the tory party?

One thing I am thankful for is that the EU take the GFA a great deal more seriously than our own brexiteers....

[P.K.]

brexit n

[toht-l krap]

The undefined being negotiated by

the unprepared in order to get the

unspecified for the uninformed -

M S Cato MEP

[doc.fixit]

On ‎1‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 11:33 PM, Barrie Stevens said:

Nothing to do with you. How about some wise comments from IOM residents as to how they think Brexit might impact on the Island?

As with the UK no one really knows what will happen either way! It's all just hot air.

[pongo]

Yesterday the new EU - Japan free trade deal came into force. 

Today Nissan announced that the X-Trail will be made in Japan, not the UK as had originally been planned pre - Brexit.

No doubt some on the no-deal, hard-Exit, scorched-earth, WTO wing of the debate will still be arguing that it's all about sovereignty and that jobs and the economy don't matter. Easiest deal in history etc ...

Here is Sir Keith Joseph, the Industry Minister, writing to Mrs Thatcher in 1980 after bringing Nissan to the UK:

Quote

“The deal [is] tangible evidence of the benefits to the UK of membership of the European Community; Nissan [has] chosen the United Kingdom because it [gives] them access to the whole European market. If we were outside the community, it is very unlikely that Nissan would have given the United Kingdom serious consideration as a base for this substantial investment.”

Not to worry. Perhaps Britain can get the old Allegro production line back up and running. It could be the symbol of Brexit Britain. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/02/02/brexit-blamed-for-nissan-pulling-manufacture-of-x-trail-from-u-k/#649511c05912

Edited February 3, 2019 by pongo

[P.K.]

55 minutes ago, pongo said:

Yesterday the new EU - Japan free trade deal came into force. 

Today Nissan announced that the X-Trail will be made in Japan, not the UK as had originally been planned pre - Brexit.

No doubt some on the no-deal, hard-Exit, scorched-earth, WTO wing of the debate will still be arguing that it's all about sovereignty and that jobs and the economy don't matter. Easiest deal in history etc 

Sunderland voted to Leave 61% vs 39% .

Will they blame themselves?

Will they blame the lies fed to them by Farage, Gove and Johnston?

Or will they think it's worth it to get shot of Johnny Foreigner?

Our 2018 tally showed 31 weeks spent in the UK.

In that time I realised that the clever money will be on option # 3.

Twats....

[Non-Believer]

We won't need Nissans anyway. We'll all be jollying around in carriages drawn by unicorns.

[woolley]

Predictable response by the usual suspects. Actually down to the collapse in diesel sales worldwide, and they admitted as much. They now will need only one platform for this model rather than two, if they even need the model at all. Obviously they are a Japanese firm so that one location will be in Japan, a failing of the much vaunted globalisation of the past couple of decades, which crucified large scale and genuinely British automotive manufacturing. Most current UK plants are merely assembling parts made elsewhere.

If the EU-Japan trade deal has a bearing on this as Pongo claims, then obviously the model would not have come to Sunderland whether or not the UK was in the EU. Can't have the argument both ways. The Brexit angle on this was merely a footnote in the Nissan press release, however  it was turned on its head by remainer journalists who wanted to spin it as the prime reason. Brexit did not cause the diesel decline. Other investments at Sunderland continue.

[mojomonkey]

21 minutes ago, woolley said:

 Other investments at Sunderland continue.

Interesting, as that's my hometown I am particularly interested in developments at Nissan. What are these other investments you talk of?

[P.K.]

20 minutes ago, woolley said:

Predictable response by the usual suspects. Actually down to the collapse in diesel sales worldwide, and they admitted as much. They now will need only one platform for this model rather than two, if they even need the model at all. Obviously they are a Japanese firm so that one location will be in Japan, a failing of the much vaunted globalisation of the past couple of decades, which crucified large scale and genuinely British automotive manufacturing. Most current UK plants are merely assembling parts made elsewhere.

If the EU-Japan trade deal has a bearing on this as Pongo claims, then obviously the model would not have come to Sunderland whether or not the UK was in the EU. Can't have the argument both ways. The Brexit angle on this was merely a footnote in the Nissan press release, however  it was turned on its head by remainer journalists who wanted to spin it as the prime reason. Brexit did not cause the diesel decline. Other investments at Sunderland continue.

You should be a spin-doctor!

Oh hang on, you already are....

"A clear winner in this poll was the demonisation of diesel in the media, with 69% of the vote. Ever since the Dieselgate scandal, some newspapers, magazines and websites have been jumping on the bandwagon to highlight any problems arising from emissions tests and air pollution levels. As these media outlets have a lot of influence on the buying public, it is likely that this negative attitude would have a big impact.

The second choice on the poll with 17% of the vote was the UK Government putting pressure on the market with the banning of both petrol and diesel vehicles from 2040. This is a result of various studies that suggest the banning of conventional vehicles from sale at first registration will help improve air quality.

https://autovistagroup.com/news-and-insights/survey-results-what-causing-diesel-sales-collapse-uk

However - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/26/brexit-british-firms-mass-exodus-no-deal

At least now you know why I asked you how long you had spent in the UK.....

 

[Freggyragh]

The French government has a 15% stake in Renault, and Renault owns 43% of Nissan. Nissan is the largest car producer in the US, and 6th largest in the world. To say it is a Japanese company is misleading.

It is a global company, but its business model is Japanese. Many smaller sub-contractors compete to make specific components and the 45 factories around the world in the Nissan -Renault -Mitsubishi Alliance compete to assemble the parts. Nissan Sunderland has been particularly successful over the years because the local EU sponsored college has done a good job of training the workforce, the area has a long industrial tradition and the U.K. was Japan’s favoured gateway to the EU.

To be fair, from my time working for one of their suppliers, I think the ‘just-in-time’ issue isn’t as serious at Nissan as it is with Ford and Honda. I’ve heard people say Nissan only had capacity on site for half a day’s supplies, but - storage space in the North East is cheap and they’ve always had to factor in delays as most of their imports and exports rely on the weather in the North Sea. 

However, if there are any tariffs on either the imported components or the export of finished vehicles the Sunderland plant simply wouldn’t be able to absorb the costs. There are tens of thousands of British workers who work for companies that supply components to Nissan who would have been banking on Sunderland getting to produce the new models, because they’re worried about future sales to EU based factories - but the vast majority of components, even the paints, are produced outside the U.K.

A WTO only exit guarantees tariffs, which would kill production. May’s deal would effect the costs and quality of education and training, make recruitment from abroad less attractive and slow up deliveries - but probably be worked around. However, two crucial factors make investment in Britain extremely problematic.

1. Britain is knowingly and happily going to take a financial hit for a generation and doesn’t care how that will effect domestic demand (40% of Nissan’s output is aimed at the UK market). 

2. The UK’s political leadership lives in cloud cuckoo land, cannot be predicted to act in the best interests of its own people, only in the interests of political parties and careers. (Even if you still believe in Brexit you have to see that the way it has been handled is making investment in the country impossibly risky).

So maybe doc.fixit doesn’t know what’ll happen either way, but the IMF and the U.K. Government have made detailed impact assessments and here is a company that invested billions in the North East of England clearly prepared to write it off rather than hope Rees-Mogg invents an electronic border sometime before the end of March. 

Edited February 3, 2019 by Freggyragh

[woolley]

2 hours ago, mojomonkey said:

Interesting, as that's my hometown I am particularly interested in developments at Nissan. What are these other investments you talk of?

New Juke and Qashqai models.  They actually said that the fall in diesel sales is the primary reason for the X-trail decision. The market has collapsed. The Brexit stuff is a convenient excuse for Nissan and the froth around it is useful cannon fodder for the credulous Europhile peanut gallery.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/feb/03/falling-diesel-sales-more-than-brexit-behind-nissans-x-trail-decision

Edited February 3, 2019 by woolley

[woolley]

1 hour ago, Freggyragh said:

The French government has a 15% stake in Renault, and Renault owns 43% of Nissan. Nissan is the largest car producer in the US, and 6th largest in the world. To say it is a Japanese company is misleading. It's fiercely, proudly Japanese

It is a global company, but its business model is Japanese. Many smaller sub-contractors compete to make specific components and the 45 factories around the world in the Nissan -Renault -Mitsubishi Alliance compete to assemble the parts. Nissan Sunderland has been particularly successful over the years because the local EU sponsored college has done a good job of training the workforce, the area has a long industrial tradition and the U.K. was Japan’s favoured gateway to the EU. EU sponsored with UK taxpayers' money.

To be fair, from my time working for one of their suppliers, I think the ‘just-in-time’ issue isn’t as serious at Nissan as it is with Ford and Honda. I’ve heard people say Nissan only had capacity on site for half a day’s supplies, but - storage space in the North East is cheap and they’ve always had to factor in delays as most of their imports and exports rely on the weather in the North Sea. Quite true.

However, if there are any tariffs on either the imported components or the export of finished vehicles the Sunderland plant simply wouldn’t be able to absorb the costs. There are tens of thousands of British workers who work for companies that supply components to Nissan who would have been banking on Sunderland getting to produce the new models, because they’re worried about future sales to EU based factories - but the vast majority of components, even the paints, are produced outside the U.K.

A WTO only exit guarantees tariffs, which would kill production. May’s deal would effect the costs and quality of education and training, make recruitment from abroad less attractive and slow up deliveries - but probably be worked around. However, two crucial factors make investment in Britain extremely problematic. There will be a deal. It's in nobody's interest for their not to be.

1. Britain is knowingly and happily going to take a financial hit for a generation and doesn’t care how that will effect domestic demand (40% of Nissan’s output is aimed at the UK market).  Speculation. I think that once this nonsense is water under the bridge, the UK economy will fly. We don't know so let us wait and see.

2. The UK’s political leadership lives in cloud cuckoo land, cannot be predicted to act in the best interests of its own people, only in the interests of political parties and careers. (Even if you still believe in Brexit you have to see that the way it has been handled is making investment in the country impossibly risky). It hasn't been the best, I agree. Not confined to only UK politicians, of course.

So maybe doc.fixit doesn’t know what’ll happen either way, but the IMF and the U.K. Government have made detailed impact assessments and here is a company that invested billions in the North East of England clearly prepared to write it off rather than hope Rees-Mogg invents an electronic border sometime before the end of March.  Er, no. They have simply stopped a new model for which projected demand from 2 years ago has collapsed by half. Those reliable projections that you chaps are so fond of. They are continuing their investment for the Juke and Qashqai.

 

[woolley]

On 2/2/2019 at 1:09 AM, Freggyragh said:

Yeah. Facts are the EU has ruled it’s a colony. The rest of Europe is signed up to protect the status quo, but thanks to some very expensive impending tax bills for some very, very rich people, a lot of money has been spent on convincing you and your fellow travellers that the status quo isn’t as good as an economic, cultural and strategic catastrophe. Baaa. 

 

On 2/2/2019 at 1:25 AM, Non-Believer said:

Indeed. I don't suppose that the advent of the European Anti-Tax Avoidance Directive would only have been at the back of one or two of Brexit proponent's minds would it, Jacob and Boris?

Just think about what you are saying here. You would prefer to have the taxation policy of the country in the hands of a pan-continental, foreign bureaucracy than in the hands of the elected government of the UK. That is quite unbelievable. It is however consistent with a belief in a United States of Europe. Perhaps this is what you really advocate?

Cultural and strategic catastrophe? Surely this is just a humble and innocuous trading bloc.

Edited February 3, 2019 by woolley