So the UK is finished says Theresa Mayhem

[paswt]

11 minutes ago, P.K. said:

 

We Brits love nostalgia. It’s usually about killing Germans, 

  but not the majority I suspect , bit like  fish 'trophy hunting'  for "fun" .

Edited February 12, 2019 by paswt

[Bobbie Bobster]

Germany+

[woolley]

16 hours ago, Freggyragh said:

I started out quite neutral, but over time it has become quite clear that the brexiters were not interested in being right, only in feeling right. I have been checking the things they say, and it is pretty obvious that it is just made up. They promised all the deals the EU had would be rolled over - wrong, they promised great new deals - wrong, they promised a strong negotiating position - wrong, they promised deals with individual EU states - wrong, they promised new border processing technologies - wrong, they promised control of borders - wrong. You stick your fingers in your ears and scream if the truth hurts your feelings. The leavers on here have all gone into hiding because they now know they’ve been lied to and they’ve been cheerleading their own diminished futures. It’s just a question of where they direct their anger - against the ones who lied to them, or the ones that shattered the illusions. 

If you started out neutral, it means that you haven't given the subject any thought over the longer term. If you had, perhaps you would see the larger geopolitical picture that has been emerging over decades. Post-war doctrines of "bigger is better" and the overweening ambitions of the EU have been seen for the folly that they are, and this is why they are in decline. All was sweetness and light while large Western European economies were handing out largesse to their smaller and Eastern fellow members. Of course it was. Who would not like their infrastructure renewed with other people's money, but now that the cash is in shorter supply and EU membership often amounts to a dictat from Germany or France to do as you're told, the natives are becoming restive, and it staggers from one crisis to the next. You cannot look at this organisation and see a viable long term future. Can you?

Meanwhile, come what may, trade will continue. It's what business people do and politicians will not, can not stop it.

[P.K.]

8 minutes ago, woolley said:

Meanwhile, come what may, trade will continue. It's what business people do and politicians will not, can not stop it.

Dear me. Such drama!

So politcians will not stop trade eh? Try telling that to Trump and his trade wars....

With the EU providing 30% of our food of course trade will continue.

But as per the extra cost is NEVER mentioned.

Starting with £39bn....

[John Wright]

[woolley]

43 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Dear me. Such drama!

So politcians will not stop trade eh? Try telling that to Trump and his trade wars....

With the EU providing 30% of our food of course trade will continue.

But as per the extra cost is NEVER mentioned.

Starting with £39bn....

You're the drama queen every time, PK. So about 4 years' membership cost tops. Even if you take the lowest estimate. Cheap at the price to be rid.

There will be little extra cost as trade settles down because we are each holding the other side's testicles in our grip. We don't hurt the stuff they want to sell ON CONDITION they don't hurt the stuff we want to sell.

[woolley]

34 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Talking of drama.

[P.K.]

25 minutes ago, woolley said:

You're the drama queen every time, PK. So about 4 years' membership cost tops. Even if you take the lowest estimate. Cheap at the price to be rid.

There will be little extra cost as trade settles down because we are each holding the other side's testicles in our grip. We don't hurt the stuff they want to sell ON CONDITION they don't hurt the stuff we want to sell.

Of course.

Well, who wouldn't believe Michael Gove 9/4/2016  ...?

"The day after we vote to leave we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want."

[woolley]

Just now, P.K. said:

Of course.

Well, who wouldn't believe Michael Gove 9/4/2016  ...?

"The day after we vote to leave we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want."

We could have done had we not had Europhile civil servants heading up the "negotiations". UK danced to EU tune all the way through the process.

[P.K.]

32 minutes ago, woolley said:

Talking of drama.

A bloat quote sense of humour failure....

[P.K.]

1 minute ago, woolley said:

We could have done had we not had Europhile civil servants heading up the "negotiations". UK danced to EU tune all the way through the process.

So it was all the fault of The Scribbling Service.

Of course it was.

Yes.

Indeed.

Care to name names and sources...?

[mojomonkey]

All the fault of the civil service, of course it is. These Brexiteers and their crap excuses.

[woolley]

Assembled Ramainers: I tell you what. When you start engaging with the bigger implications of the options we faced at the referendum, and what is likely to happen in the future under various scenarios, instead of ignoring all of that completely and concentrating on the minutiae of process, perhaps we can have a more meaningful conversation.

Edited February 12, 2019 by woolley

[Freggyragh]

“The best predictor of future behavior is … past behaviour” - Inescapable logic when it comes to brexit. You’ve been severely lied to, and now you’re in denial and rather than deal with the ‘minutiae of process’ (such as the integrity of the United Kingdom, the cutbacks in industry, the flight in capital and high paying jobs, the awful trading position, the pandering to creationist zealots, the huge loss of influence, trust and prestige) you’re clutching at speculations that happen to suit your position. You’re too sensible to not know better. You’re an anonymous poster, you have no political career to protect - you can accept you’ve been played without any loss of face.

[woolley]

Absolutely not. Everything you list is short term effect born of uncertainty and dark threats. You are the ones who have been lied to for the whole of your lives, and you are the ones in denial without even knowing it. You believe that your understanding of the status quo ante is normal. This contrivance of "pooled sovereignty". That it is a good thing. And then look to future decades. Do you see the EU as a viable entity, say, 15 years from now? Given the competing interests within it? There is no such thing as opting for the status quo - even if that was a good thing. It's a fluid situation.