Barrie Stevens Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, woolley said: If you believe sovereignty is a fetish it exposes the poverty of your entire position. It's a bit like calling breathing a fetish. Ask people in countries who have had their sovereignty usurped and lived under the yoke of a dictator. Our problem is that we have taken ours for granted for too long and we gave away chunks of it too easily. If there is pain involved in bringing it back then it is pain worth bearing. One man's pain is another man's agony...Or boy are we going to make a killing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 minute ago, mojomonkey said: OK, I'll quote all of it and respond to all of it. Unfortunately that is a very long time ago. The World is a vastly different place now and I don't share your optimism in negotiating trade deals. Remind me, how are the current negotiations going, I believe they've managed four deals, none of which have been with anywhere of any significance. I've never been to Albania so I can't comment on that, although a friend of mine has an Albanian au pair and she is rather tasty. Do you really believe Trump is remotely interested in the UK. The man has the attention span of a toddler and is too obsessed with building a pointless fence. If he is serious, where is the UK - USA trade deal? I presume you're talking about the likes of Honda? I'm not entirely convinced that their departure is due to Brexit but I think it would be daft to say it didn't play some part in their decision. See, you make more sense when you bother to respond properly. All valid points, kind of, but you're not really selling the idea of Armageddon outside of the EU to me. You talk as if the UK is going to be suddenly set adrift in the atlantic once we lose our formal ties with the prosperous european economies. That land mass across the water that is predominantly in recession. Really, some people are too emotionally involved in picking a side on this to see the bigger picture clearly. There are always pros and cons in making any large decisions and in the short term there will be uncertainty and turbulence. Then the world turns and business finds a way of ironing itself out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 minute ago, mojomonkey said: OK, I'll quote all of it and respond to all of it. Unfortunately that is a very long time ago. The World is a vastly different place now and I don't share your optimism in negotiating trade deals. Remind me, how are the current negotiations going, I believe they've managed four deals, none of which have been with anywhere of any significance. I've never been to Albania so I can't comment on that, although a friend of mine has an Albanian au pair and she is rather tasty. Do you really believe Trump is remotely interested in the UK. The man has the attention span of a toddler and is too obsessed with building a pointless fence. If he is serious, where is the UK - USA trade deal? I presume you're talking about the likes of Honda? I'm not entirely convinced that their departure is due to Brexit but I think it would be daft to say it didn't play some part in their decision. Whatever moved Honda if I were them I would go along with saying it is not Brexit. Japan would not make the UK lose face. I also suspect the UK will pay to ease departure in the sense of cooperating, retraining etc and maybe Honda's departure may also incur some redundancy and resettlement. If I were Honda I would stay away from Brexit politics. Also, if the UK crashes out with no deal then maybe the much discussed supply chain disaster will become a reality. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then I say it is a duck. Also is it just me or can you also see ducks being lined up.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 14 minutes ago, woolley said: Well you would understand the issue then. Save the UK is more than one country and some of it wants go another way ie Independent....Funny thing is England is the one part of the UK that has no parliament..If Brexit goes wrong badly there will be no united kingdom/nation...Hence this thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Barrie Stevens said: Save the UK is more than one country and some of it wants go another way ie Independent.... Well. A minority in some of it wants to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 10 minutes ago, Lxxx said: See, you make more sense when you bother to respond properly. All valid points, kind of, but you're not really selling the idea of Armageddon outside of the EU to me. You talk as if the UK is going to be suddenly set adrift in the atlantic once we lose our formal ties with the prosperous european economies. That land mass across the water that is predominantly in recession. Really, some people are too emotionally involved in picking a side on this to see the bigger picture clearly. There are always pros and cons in making any large decisions and in the short term there will be uncertainty and turbulence. Then the world turns and business finds a way of ironing itself out. I don’t want to be rude but your answer says an awful lot with actually saying anything. I’m not trying to sell anyone the idea of Armageddon and I don’t recall ever trying to convince you as such. I want the UK to prosper, I have no desire to see it fail. Apart from Greece can you list which countries in Europe are in recession? Those who champion leaving the EU are constantly telling us that the UK will prosper, at the moment it just a constant stream of news to the contrary. If anyone dares to highlight this they face accusations of Project Fear. So I ask, when is the good economic news actually going to start? When are people going to bring on Project Success as all I’m hearing at the moment is meaningless nonsense and nothing actually firm. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, woolley said: Well. A minority in some of it wants to. How many people have been asked....Lots of people who voted leave truly believed it would happen next day and Britain would be out of the EU and standing alone...A nation once again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 9 minutes ago, Barrie Stevens said: Whatever moved Honda if I were them I would go along with saying it is not Brexit. Japan would not make the UK lose face. If I were Honda I would stay away from Brexit politics. Also, if the UK crashes out with no deal then maybe the much discussed supply chain disaster will become a reality. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then I say it is a duck. Also is it just me or can you also see ducks being lined up.... This is a perfect example of the unremitting negativity. Even though the company gives the business reasons, which are perfectly plausible, why this is not a Brexit issue, you persist in your assertion that it is. I could understand Britain bashers on the EU side doing this, but I cannot see why a native of Britain, by all accounts depending on British state largesse for sustenance, would want to do so. It's not just Bazza. There a half a dozen on here and millions across the country still cheerleading for the EU. That is indoctrination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Just now, woolley said: This is a perfect example of the unremitting negativity. Even though the company gives the business reasons, which are perfectly plausible, why this is not a Brexit issue, you persist in your assertion that it is. I could understand Britain bashers on the EU side doing this, but I cannot see why a native of Britain, by all accounts depending on British state largesse for sustenance, would want to do so. It's not just Bazza. There a half a dozen on here and millions across the country still cheerleading for the EU. That is indoctrination. Woolley, to counter all the negativity please list positive outcomes of the current situation. I mean actual outcomes with financials behind them, not jingoistic rhetoric. I want to be optimistic but I'm not seeing the evidence to support it, here is your chance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, woolley said: This is a perfect example of the unremitting negativity. Even though the company gives the business reasons, which are perfectly plausible, why this is not a Brexit issue, you persist in your assertion that it is. I could understand Britain bashers on the EU side doing this, but I cannot see why a native of Britain, by all accounts depending on British state largesse for sustenance, would want to do so. It's not just Bazza. There a half a dozen on here and millions across the country still cheerleading for the EU. That is indoctrination. Says the person cheer leading the driving of the bus of the cliff despite the negative effects of doing so. Now that is indoctrination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, mojomonkey said: Woolley, to counter all the negativity please list positive outcomes of the current situation. I mean actual outcomes with financials behind them, not jingoistic rhetoric. I want to be optimistic but I'm not seeing the evidence to support it, here is your chance. "Wait and see" apparently... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 12 minutes ago, mojomonkey said: I don’t want to be rude but your answer says an awful lot with actually saying anything. I’m not trying to sell anyone the idea of Armageddon and I don’t recall ever trying to convince you as such. I want the UK to prosper, I have no desire to see it fail. Apart from Greece can you list which countries in Europe are in recession? Those who champion leaving the EU are constantly telling us that the UK will prosper, at the moment it just a constant stream of news to the contrary. If anyone dares to highlight this they face accusations of Project Fear. So I ask, when is the good economic news actually going to start? When are people going to bring on Project Success as all I’m hearing at the moment is meaningless nonsense and nothing actually firm. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-MLwPW86Rs The economic goods news is above for you to behold. Click the link..Is from Alice in Wonderland. We could do a latterday version based on Brexit ...Malice in Wonderland... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 hour ago, RIchard Britten said: "Within two years, before the negotiation with the EU is likely to be complete, and therefore before anything material has changed, we can negotiate a free trade area massively larger than the EU … The new trade agreements will come into force at the point of exit, but they will be fully negotiated" David Davis 14 July 2016 the negotiations haven't been completed........ uk can't sign trade deals until it leaves...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, mojomonkey said: I don’t want to be rude but your answer says an awful lot with actually saying anything. I’m not trying to sell anyone the idea of Armageddon and I don’t recall ever trying to convince you as such. I want the UK to prosper, I have no desire to see it fail. Apart from Greece can you list which countries in Europe are in recession? Those who champion leaving the EU are constantly telling us that the UK will prosper, at the moment it just a constant stream of news to the contrary. If anyone dares to highlight this they face accusations of Project Fear. So I ask, when is the good economic news actually going to start? When are people going to bring on Project Success as all I’m hearing at the moment is meaningless nonsense and nothing actually firm. You're emotionally wedded to staying in the EU, I get that. It's a perfectly reasonable point of view. However you and others scour current events with your confirmation bias to try and find nuggets of news which reaffirm your core belief, or if it doesn't you'll twist it to suit. All the while overlooking anything else which doesn't fit your narrative on Brexit. No-one has a crystal ball. Whether we stay in, leave or agree on a halfway house there will be groups of people who will continue to claim it was the wrong decision. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 hour ago, mojomonkey said: No idea when they started doing it but don’t they now count people full time caring for their own relatives as being in full time employment? I’m a bit sceptical of employment figures. no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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