mojomonkey Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 9 minutes ago, woody2 said: on a no deal it will be........all are done under wto rules.......tariffs have been released today..... its straight forward...... I'm only saying what those UK businesses are talking me. The dissemination of information from UK Government to UK businesses seems poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, mojomonkey said: I'm only saying what those UK businesses are talking me. The dissemination of information from UK Government to UK businesses seems poor. from your point of view treat it the same as a usa export with paperwork.......you should be issuing the same paperwork anyway to eu customers in case they export it.......no difference in transport.......the customer may have to pay tariffs- these have been set out today... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47551266 easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Just now, woody2 said: from your point of view treat it the same as a usa export with paperwork.......you should be issuing the same paperwork anyway to eu customers in case they export it.......no difference in transport.......the customer may have to pay tariffs- these have been set out today... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47551266 easy I fully understand that, the paperwork is no problem, in fact we have no problem. It those importing our goods that will have to pay so it is them that want the certainty from the UK Government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 20 minutes ago, mojomonkey said: I fully understand that, the paperwork is no problem, in fact we have no problem. It those importing our goods that will have to pay so it is them that want the certainty from the UK Government. and they have it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, woody2 said: for anyone who thinks no deal has changed...... An amendment has been tabled replacing "declines to approve" with "rejects" and deleting the caveat after 2019. Knowing Bercow he'll probably select it. Just rechecked; also deletes the date, so just totally rejects "no deal" which isn't very smart with the position not settled. It's like a child putting its fingers in its ears and wishing everything would go away. Edited March 13, 2019 by woolley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 hours ago, woody2 said: trade talks have been happening since art.50 was submitted in case of no deal....... Trade talks with whom? I accept that there have been trade talks with non-EU countries but the EU member states will not negotiate until the UK actually leaves. 2 hours ago, woody2 said: cough...... Source? I will defer to my learned friend John Wright on the technical details of this extract, however, it reads to me like the UK parliament passed into law that the UK must have a referendum before enacting article 50(1) it does not go as far as stating that the outcome of that referendum is binding. I would also suggest that you remember that Parliament is Sovereign which was what all this was about... wasn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Semantics. It was made very, very clear that the decision of the referendum would be implemented. "This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide." It doesn't say "unless we don't like what you decide." Are we to take it that the government lied? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 14 minutes ago, woolley said: An amendment has been tabled replacing "declines to approve" with "rejects" and deleting the caveat after 2019. Knowing Bercow he'll probably select it. Just rechecked; also deletes the date, so just totally rejects "no deal" which isn't very smart with the position not settled. It's like a child putting its fingers in its ears and wishing everything would go away. it doesn't though because it doesn't overturn uk and eu law..... this vote is non-binding......it doesn't overturn the law....... eu would have to agree an extension then legislation would be brought forward....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 14 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: I will defer to my learned friend John Wright on the technical details of this extract, however, it reads to me like the UK parliament passed into law that the UK must have a referendum before enacting article 50(1) it does not go as far as stating that the outcome of that referendum is binding. I would also suggest that you remember that Parliament is Sovereign which was what all this was about... wasn't it? its been tried in court at least 3 times now.....remoans have lost ever time..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 16 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Trade talks with whom? I accept that there have been trade talks with non-EU countries but the EU member states will not negotiate until the UK actually leaves. with the eu........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 14 minutes ago, woolley said: Semantics. It was made very, very clear that the decision of the referendum would be implemented. "This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide." It doesn't say "unless we don't like what you decide." Are we to take it that the government lied? Would it be the first time a Government has lied? In all seriousness we have had a PM resign and a general election since the referendum so does the Government who made that statement still exist? The party that was in power at the time that promise was made has subsequently seen it's majority diminished and had to go into a coalition. 5 minutes ago, woody2 said: its been tried in court at least 3 times now.....remoans have lost ever time..... How to explain this... If the challenges in court were made based on what you posted (and you have supplied no source) then of course the cases were lost. If the Government enacted article 50 without a referendum then they would be in breach of the legislation but they had one. The flip side of this is that the UK Parliament still has the Unilateral right to withdraw article 50 - as proven in the ECJ. Interesting that no leavers are taking cases to the courts to claim that ignoring the referendum would be illegal... 3 minutes ago, woody2 said: with the eu........ Source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 minute ago, manxman1980 said: Would it be the first time a Government has lied? In all seriousness we have had a PM resign and a general election since the referendum so does the Government who made that statement still exist? The party that was in power at the time that promise was made has subsequently seen it's majority diminished and had to go into a coalition. Yes. And been replaced by a parliament in which 84% of the sitting MPs were returned on a Brexit supporting manifesto. If anything, a bigger mandate than the referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 16 minutes ago, woolley said: Semantics. It was made very, very clear that the decision of the referendum would be implemented. "This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide." It doesn't say "unless we don't like what you decide." Are we to take it that the government lied? It was a different government back then. One government cannot bind another. We have a different government now for the time being. Parliament is sovereign and that includes not necessarily bending towards what the populace allegedly thinks if that parliament can see a disaster looming. The MP is elected to represent you but not be slavish. Moot points true hence the only real safety valve is another referendum to get it all out in the open and this time do it whatever it is. Did the government lie...Yes...It was not meant to be this way...The guinea pig escaped before the experiment was concluded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 10 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Would it be the first time a Government has lied? How to explain this... If the challenges in court were made based on what you posted (and you have supplied no source) then of course the cases were lost. If the Government enacted article 50 without a referendum then they would be in breach of the legislation but they had one. The flip side of this is that the UK Parliament still has the Unilateral right to withdraw article 50 - as proven in the ECJ. Interesting that no leavers are taking cases to the courts to claim that ignoring the referendum would be illegal... you can't challenge until it becomes law....... it comes from the miller case........ 13 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Would it be the first time a Government has lied? In all seriousness we have had a PM resign and a general election since the referendum so does the Government who made that statement still exist? The party that was in power at the time that promise was made has subsequently seen it's majority diminished and had to go into a coalition. the law hasn't changed....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, woolley said: Yes. And been replaced by a parliament in which 84% of the sitting MPs were returned on a Brexit supporting manifesto. If anything, a bigger mandate than the referendum. But under our system that is not necessarily permanent. That was then but this is now. Personally I would crash out now and soddit because it will never be the same again and for how long it lasts we will all be arguing and at loggerheads and the EU will get tired as well as the future trade deal will more of the same for many years. The only thing is a lot of people will lose out and or suffer in some way. Will I have to go the post office and buy a British visitor's passport to pop over to Calais like pre Common Market. Ten bob they were? Soddit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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