woolley Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 1 hour ago, the stinking enigma said: It's a good job we had the eu to negotiate deals on our behalf these last 40 years or whatever it is. We seem pretty crap at it. This is the whole point, Stinky. It's an abdication of state responsibilities. Don't use your faculties and sure enough you will lose them. That is what has happened together with a lack of leaders and expertise. All part of the plan to hobble nation states and it needs to be reversed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 1 hour ago, The Lurker said: I’ve only just ventured beyond the realm of the Local News forum so have only read the last dozen or so pages on this thread. I think it’s clear that May’s deal won’t go through and that the only people who actually want a no deal Brexit are disaster capitalists and people who are a bit hard of thinking. Whether you’re for leave or remain the only sensible option seems to me to be to revoke Article 50 allowing time for a general election so HMG can return to Brussels to begin a re-negotiation without the Damoclean sword of Article 50 hanging over everyone’s head. If the EU pull the ‘we won’t negotiate unless Article 50 is triggered’ stunt again we can simply gerrymander with our veto until they agree to come to the table. Or realise that remaining within the EU is probably the best deal available. Article 50 has been the big spanner in the works, and was designed by John Kerr to be exactly that. Big mistake to go down that road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 12 hours ago, Freggyragh said: Woolley, I know you haven’t fallen for all the lies pushed on social media by the leavers, but have a look at the link below, it might (or might not) make you feel better about the E.U., unlikeable entity with crap flag and anthem as it is! https://www.derekthomas.org/news/factcheck-26-questions-eu Nothing revelatory there, nor anything that makes me reconsider my post last night. Current deal is about the limit pragmatically. Anything closer involving customs union, single market, full budget contributions etc. might as well be around the table because you haven't left in any case. If it achieves nothing else, it proves that you cannot leave this thing until it dies its natural death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 2 hours ago, the stinking enigma said: It's a good job we had the eu to negotiate deals on our behalf these last 40 years or whatever it is. We seem pretty crap at it. they really haven't done much in the way of deals..... the wa is another one...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 2 hours ago, manxman1980 said: I will need to do a little research but I read earlier that the default legal position may not in fact be a "hard brexit". The opinion that I saw was that it would actually require an act of Parliament to take the UK out of the EU without a deal and that Act's already passed by Parliament are not sufficient enough to do so. the uk is free to leave under uk and eu law....... wa would need a act........ some other legislation is still needs to be done but it wouldn't stop the uk leaving........ all she can do is extend the date with a si.........the default is still leave which can only be overturned by legislation........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 1 hour ago, The Lurker said: I’ve only just ventured beyond the realm of the Local News forum so have only read the last dozen or so pages on this thread. I think it’s clear that May’s deal won’t go through and that the only people who actually want a no deal Brexit are disaster capitalists and people who are a bit hard of thinking. Whether you’re for leave or remain the only sensible option seems to me to be to revoke Article 50 allowing time for a general election so HMG can return to Brussels to begin a re-negotiation without the Damoclean sword of Article 50 hanging over everyone’s head. If the EU pull the ‘we won’t negotiate unless Article 50 is triggered’ stunt again we can simply gerrymander with our veto until they agree to come to the table. Or realise that remaining within the EU is probably the best deal available. veto's wouldn't apply...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, woolley said: This is the whole point, Stinky. It's an abdication of state responsibilities. Don't use your faculties and sure enough you will lose them. That is what has happened together with a lack of leaders and expertise. All part of the plan to hobble nation states and it needs to be reversed. Pure unicornism. Look at yourself trying to argue that a market of 66 million could get a better deal than a market of 520 million if only it had the expertise. It has got the expertise - 200 civil servants who used to do this for the E.U. It’s not some sinister plot. It’s common sense. You’re pushing someone elses daft excuse for non-appearance of the unicorn - probably some tax averse toff who despises the NHS and the non billionaire class. You’re smarter than that, mate. Edited March 22, 2019 by Freggyragh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 57 minutes ago, Freggyragh said: Pure unicornism. Look at yourself trying to argue that a market of 66 million could get a better deal than a market of 520 million if only it had the expertise. It has got the expertise - 200 civil servants who used to do this for the E.U. It’s not some sinister plot. It’s common sense. You’re pushing someone elses daft excuse for non-appearance of the unicorn - probably some tax averse toff who despises the NHS and the non billionaire class. You’re smarter than that, mate. Hear yourself with this tired "unicorn" bollox. You, I would suggest, are smarter than the remoan social media buzzwords. Then the overworked "economies of scale" stuff. In a no deal situation business would survive and thrive. People want to do business and politicians whether they are in London or Brussels will never stop them. It just seems now as though we will never know what could have been. I am wondering if Woody would prefer single market and customs union "deal" or remain. He'll probably say no difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Woolley what is your view on the ERGs favourite economist forecasting that Brexit will be the end of agriculture and manufacturing in the UK? I would have thought that these industries would be key to a successful economy post Brexit because otherwise the UK becomes reliant on the service sector not unlike the Isle of Man and that surely is an economy that has inherent problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Freggyragh said: Pure unicornism. Look at yourself trying to argue that a market of 66 million could get a better deal than a market of 520 million if only it had the expertise. It has got the expertise - 200 civil servants who used to do this for the E.U. It’s not some sinister plot. It’s common sense. You’re pushing someone elses daft excuse for non-appearance of the unicorn - probably some tax averse toff who despises the NHS and the non billionaire class. You’re smarter than that, mate. you do know the eu-usa deal would of opened the nhs to private usa companies....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 57 minutes ago, woolley said: I am wondering if Woody would prefer single market and customs union "deal" or remain. He'll probably say no difference. non of the above...... the madness in parliament of having more and more votes on motions they have already refused......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 16 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Woolley what is your view on the ERGs favourite economist forecasting that Brexit will be the end of agriculture and manufacturing in the UK? I would have thought that these industries would be key to a successful economy post Brexit because otherwise the UK becomes reliant on the service sector not unlike the Isle of Man and that surely is an economy that has inherent problems. they got destroyed by joining the eu....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) I have said from the start of this that it will be a soft-Brexit. And quite right too. Before the Brexit vote Britain enjoyed a somewhat semi-detached relationship with the EU. After all of this, whether or not it begins with no-deal (initially), Britain will continue to enjoy a somewhat semi-detached relationship with the EU. It's going to be something Norway-ish. It's now just a question of how it happens. And how long it takes to re-build the normality which has been destroyed by this awful divisive and unnecessary stupidity which was forced on us all by eccentrics, spivs and nihilists.. Before the vote Britain had the best of both world's - full membership of the Single Market whilst not being part of the Euro. The issue was that the man-in-the-street, propagandised by years of tabloid nonsense, couldn't see that. The best outcome will preserve as much of that as Britain can manage to get away with. The 'left-behinds' and eccentrics who have put all of their hopes into Brexit will still be left behind. They were left behind because they refused to keep up. Nothing to do with the EU. Edited March 22, 2019 by pongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 35 minutes ago, pongo said: I have said from the start of this that it will be a soft-Brexit. And quite right too. Before the Brexit vote Britain enjoyed a somewhat semi-detached relationship with the EU. After all of this, whether or not it begins with no-deal (initially), Britain will continue to enjoy a somewhat semi-detached relationship with the EU. It's going to be something Norway-ish. It's now just a question of how it happens. And how long it takes to re-build the normality which has been destroyed by this awful divisive and unnecessary stupidity which was forced on us all by eccentrics, spivs and nihilists.. Before the vote Britain had the best of both world's - full membership of the Single Market whilst not being part of the Euro. The issue was that the man-in-the-street, propagandised by years of tabloid nonsense, couldn't see that. The best outcome will preserve as much of that as Britain can manage to get away with. The 'left-behinds' and eccentrics who have put all of their hopes into Brexit will still be left behind. They were left behind because they refused to keep up. Nothing to do with the EU. anything that has free movement or controls on the uk or payment will not last...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 looking into this........ they're going to have non-binding votes which will result in a non-binding political agreement....... which anybody can overturn/ ignore in the future...... they still have to agree to the wa......... nothing in the wa stops any future deal.........so labour have zero reason for objecting to the wa...... pointless......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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