woody2 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 non-binding votes again........by letwin amendment..........the one that forced polltax........that turned out well...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 https://www.ft.com/content/5f3df8bc-4c03-11e9-bde6-79eaea5acb64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 On 3/24/2019 at 10:49 AM, woody2 said: parliament wasting time again next week.........they have zero sovereignty..........the unelected eu already have the new date as law...... so why bother debating it...... A Parliament with zero sovereignty just voted in favour of taking control of the commons... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 1 hour ago, manxman1980 said: A Parliament with zero sovereignty just voted in favour of taking control of the commons... no it didn't.........its non-binding...........and it won't change the eu's wa.......... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 19 minutes ago, woody2 said: no it didn't.........its non-binding...........and it won't change the eu's wa.......... Imagine that the indicative votes show that there is a form of Brexit that Parlianent will support - a Noway model perhaps - then that changes everything with the EU as the Maybots red lines become irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 20 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Imagine that the indicative votes show that there is a form of Brexit that Parlianent will support - a Noway model perhaps - then that changes everything with the EU as the Maybots red lines become irrelevant. no it doesn't.....will still have to sign the wa........ the backstop is like norway........ the same people that object to red lines want to put them on any trade talks..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, woody2 said: no it doesn't.....will still have to sign the wa........ the backstop is like norway........ the same people that object to red lines want to put them on any trade talks..... Actually, there is no need to sign the withdrawal agreement there are options if enough of Parliament supports them. These include; Revoking Article 50 (Brexit can always be revisited when someone has an actual plan on how to make it happen); Parliament requests a further extension to allow for other forms of Brexit to be explored and negotiated with the EU. This would also mean agreeing to take part in the EU elections; An extension to allow for a second referendum - and time for a debate on what the question should be; Remember that the EU does not want the UK to leave (although they are getting fed up of the indecision in Parliament and Theresa May's vacuous words). If they believe that there are other "less destructive" options then they will consider them. You, and the other hardliners, won't like this though as that puts the negotiating power with the EU and any other form of Brexit will probably mean that we truly become rule takers and not the rule makers that we have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 9 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said: Liz needs to stand up and stick up for the 52% and dissolve parliament and sort this. That's it folks. Move on. What have we a Queen/monarch for otherwise? Come on Liz!:Sort it HM by convention has to take the advice of her Prime Minister and Privy Council. HM has to act on advice or risk the causes of our last two civil wars. . The PM is her PM..her personal creature. Other than that the only rights she has are to caution, advise and warn. I do recall her meeting the PM of an Overseas Territory years ago warning him to behave the threat being direct rule which we now do in N Ireland. Other than that to sack the PM risks the backlash as when in the 1970s the Governor General of Australia sacked PM Gough Whitlam technically in her name and caused a crisis. HM could be advised to herself advise the PM to resign and then appoint as PM someone most fitted to form and lead an administration in her name. Why have a monarchy. Well to compromise and to impose checks and balances so that no one ever again can have the top job and exercise real power as in the past. The UK is a republic pretending to be a monarchy The USA is an elected monarchy pretending to be a republic. HM could in theory issue an edict in Privy Council with support but that would cause more or less complete revolution and chaos with more dissent and bitterness than Brexit ever could.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 1 hour ago, manxman1980 said: Actually, there is no need to sign the withdrawal agreement there are options if enough of Parliament supports them. These include; Revoking Article 50 (Brexit can always be revisited when someone has an actual plan on how to make it happen); Parliament requests a further extension to allow for other forms of Brexit to be explored and negotiated with the EU. This would also mean agreeing to take part in the EU elections; An extension to allow for a second referendum - and time for a debate on what the question should be; Remember that the EU does not want the UK to leave (although they are getting fed up of the indecision in Parliament and Theresa May's vacuous words). If they believe that there are other "less destructive" options then they will consider them. You, and the other hardliners, won't like this though as that puts the negotiating power with the EU and any other form of Brexit will probably mean that we truly become rule takers and not the rule makers that we have been. which bit of non-binding votes don't you understand........ it's not up to parliament......the power is with the executive...... if they want a norway type deal then its better to let the backstop kick in.........=zero money to pay....... veto's have gone come 2020....... what labour wants is the same as the wa.......but are trying to get a ge out of it....... the eu doesn't care if the uk leaves......it just wants money....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 47 minutes ago, woody2 said: which bit of non-binding votes don't you understand........ it's not up to parliament......the power is with the executive...... You apparently do not understand what an advisory referendum means but moving beyond that misunderstanding... The executive cannot push through the WA without a majority in Parliament. The executive have been told that they cannot bring forward the WA for a third meaningful vote unless there are changes to it. The EU will not renegotiate the WA unless My relaxes her red lines. Now if Parliament show that there is a form of Brexit that they will get behind then the executive can go back and negotiate a further extension with the EU and a new WA based on the will of Parliament. If the executive are not willing to do so then we may be heading for a very damaging brexit or the withdrawal of Article 50. If JRM and his cabal of "clean brexiters" are anything to go by they now fear that they have lost Brexit. JRM is now saying he will support May's deal despite have voted against it twice and having tried to oust May as the party leader very recently. Their problem is that as it stands May will not bring deal back for another vote as she does not believe that she can command a majority. The whole thing is an absolute mess.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 9 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: You apparently do not understand what an advisory referendum means but moving beyond that misunderstanding... clearly you don't-see the courts judgement..... 10 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: The executive cannot push through the WA without a majority in Parliament. The executive have been told that they cannot bring forward the WA for a third meaningful vote unless there are changes to it. The EU will not renegotiate the WA unless My relaxes her red lines. never said they could........ 11 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Now if Parliament show that there is a form of Brexit that they will get behind then the executive can go back and negotiate a further extension with the EU and a new WA based on the will of Parliament. If the executive are not willing to do so then we may be heading for a very damaging brexit or the withdrawal of Article 50. it's non-binding the executive can do what it wants....... the wa isn't about future arrangement.....you clearly don't understand this...... care to tell us just one treaty the uk has left that has had a impact.....go on just one...... 15 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: If JRM and his cabal of "clean brexiters" are anything to go by they now fear that they have lost Brexit. JRM is now saying he will support May's deal despite have voted against it twice and having tried to oust May as the party leader very recently. Their problem is that as it stands May will not bring deal back for another vote as she does not believe that she can command a majority. remoanerisms again....... 17 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: The whole thing is an absolute mess.... 100% down to remoaners....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 13 minutes ago, woody2 said: clearly you don't-see the courts judgement..... never said they could........ it's non-binding the executive can do what it wants....... the wa isn't about future arrangement.....you clearly don't understand this...... care to tell us just one treaty the uk has left that has had a impact.....go on just one...... remoanerisms again....... 100% down to remoaners....... Take the blinkers off. It will make it a lot easier to have a sensible discussion and not cover the same old ground. We are moving into a period where there is no constitutional precedent despite Parliament having once tried the same tactic. The mess is down to May & leavers who had no plan. There should never have been a general election in 2017 where the Tory party lost their majority (May & her advisers to blame for that), she then got into bed with the DUP (making Northern Ireland & the Irish border a major issue) and finally we have the ultra-brexiteers the ERG who have voted against May's deal every time leading us to where we are now. Which of those is the fault of "remoaners"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 12 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Take the blinkers off. It will make it a lot easier to have a sensible discussion and not cover the same old ground. 47 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: You apparently do not understand what an advisory referendum means but moving beyond that misunderstanding... 28 minutes ago, woody2 said: clearly you don't-see the courts judgement..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 14 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: The mess is down to May & leavers who had no plan. There should never have been a general election in 2017 where the Tory party lost their majority (May & her advisers to blame for that), she then got into bed with the DUP (making Northern Ireland & the Irish border a major issue) and finally we have the ultra-brexiteers the ERG who have voted against May's deal every time leading us to where we are now. Which of those is the fault of "remoaners"? may is a remoaner........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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