So the UK is finished says Theresa Mayhem

[Freggyragh]

Great Britain sends more to Northern Ireland than it sends to the EU. The U.K. as a whole would be poorer if Northern Ireland were left to fail, as it would if Eastern Europe had been ignored and followed the path of the likes of Belarus and Azerbaijan. 

By the way, what makes you think the pound has a brighter future with the U.K. outside the EU? 

Edited May 26, 2019 by Freggyragh

[ballaughbiker]

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All of that is speculation

Speculation? Yeah, what do Lamy and Azevêdo know about WTO ?   Quite a lot one speculatively muses and do you really expect us to believe there will be no costs regarding the new required standards and their regulation and compliance? They will be huge.

 

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none of it relevant to the point I was making

You were clearly making a very wide point that we pay x and they "give us" y and x-y is wasted. It is not that simple, given the handful of examples I mentioned, as I am sure you are already aware. Relevance confirmed.

 

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Perhaps if we'd been around in 1945 we would have a different definition of sovereignty 

Well I wasn't but by not much. What I do know is things have moved on in 70+ years and we are not at war with johnny foreigner just across the channel. Much of the leaver rhetoric is predicated on the idea that we are at war with the mythical country that is the EU because that way we have an enemy to hate and something to supposedly conquer and win.

The general concept of sovereignty in the 21st century is emotional but of course Haw Haw has  capitalised on his definition and promoted the war concept that will no doubt stand him in good stead tonight.                                                

Edited May 26, 2019 by ballaughbiker
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[ballaughbiker]

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What do you think will happen to the EU after the demise of the euro? Just as a matter of interest.

All of that is speculation 

[Freggyragh]

I’m not sure there would be too much extra cost in the way of standards, regulations and compliance were the U.K. to try and get schedules accepted at the WTO and trade on WTO terms. The U.K. economy is geared up to meeting the regulations and standards it helped set up as a EU member. EU standards are the global benchmark and most manufacturers wishing to export meet them. The problem would be with protecting consumer standards and U.K. producers in the U.K. market once it flung the doors open and was desperately looking for deals.

Edited May 26, 2019 by Freggyragh

[ballaughbiker]

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I’m not sure there would be too much extra cost in the way of standards, regulations and compliance

Well something I used to have a bit to do with, the CAA, seems to disagree. Their costs are predicted to take off (sorry....).

One assumes, on the day of leaving that everything we currently trade to/from the EU will be approved. However, going forward, this is most unlikely to be the case and will no longer be automatic. Won't this mean that a future widget designed and made after 1st November will have to be approved a minimum of 27 times (for just the EU) whereas now it is automatically accepted? Anyone know from personal 1st hand experience (facebook "evidence" not acceptable)?

My son works for a global company manufacturing niche industrial items, with one of their design and manufacturing facilities currently in the UK. It's the only significant single employer in a 60 mile radius and yes that area voted 'out'. I understand that they are somewhat preoccupied about future standards and compliance when we leave . For a start what general standards are going to be used? EN might not be available. Maybe UL and get all 27 to accept automatically UL and if we comply with UL for everything applicable, this will be automatically accepted by the world's largest trading block.? What about Canada and OZ/NZ? 

It's fairly straightforward atm and not something joe public like us has to ever concern themselves with so nobody mentions it as eyes would immediately glaze over. That is not the case for industry and this "ever so easy" WTO future.

Not as straightforward as Haw Haw preaches is it? I bet he couldn't even put a plug on an iron.....

[P.K.]

2 hours ago, woolley said:

Hmmmm. "Picked off"? What does that mean?

OK. What do you think will happen to the EU after the demise of the euro? Just as a matter of interest.

What a poor attempt at a smokescreen.

Liam Fox has been a dismal failure, at best, in obtaining "the easiest trade deals in history". Because of the shambles that is Brexit the UK has lost a great deal of prestige and influence on the world stage. But hey, all those who voted for brexit must have known that......

Fox's trip to Japan got nowhere. In any event those who sign up to trading with the EU, like Japan recently, also sign up to a "Most Favoured Nation" clause which means the UK can NEVER get a better deal than the deals they currently enjoy thanks to the financial muscle of the EU. In any event how many are going to risk their trade with the EU for the sake of a much diminished straggler....?

[Non-Believer]

I watched an article on Sky News a couple of days ago from a reporter following Farage's election rally trail. Heard it all from the interviewed and questioned followers. "Given us back the British Bulldog spirit", "We didn't win the war (presumably meaning all by ourselves?) so we could surrender". Etc etc.

What age and planet do these people live on? It's worrying that people can still be possessed by such a backward, insular attitude in the 21st century. Makes one wonder if many of them have ever even visited or been anywhere else, other than a summer coach trip to Skegness. Though not surprising that they can be so easily led. And given that both May and Corbyn have left the field open for Farage, he's got an easier job.

Interestingly, the potential for considerable job losses was raised. And raised the response, "Oh, we'll get over it". Though presumably it wouldn't be their own jobs?

Scary, scary stuff. Mainly through being revealing.

[P.K.]

19 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

I watched an article on Sky News a couple of days ago from a reporter following Farage's election rally trail. Heard it all from the interviewed and questioned followers. "Given us back the British Bulldog spirit", "We didn't win the war (presumably meaning all by ourselves?) so we could surrender". Etc etc.

What age and planet do these people live on?

Scary, scary stuff. Mainly through being revealing.

Here is Owen Jones, presumably let out before he's finished his geography homework, asking those attending a Farage rally, errr, well, why would you?

Sure Jones is a bit of a twat but amongst this lot he comes across as an intellectual colossus!

You get all the usual lies pedalled by the UK lowbrow right wing press, which is to say pretty much all of it, like the EU is "undemocratic" - and that's directly after an EU election! But comparing it to Russia! Sheer comedy gold....

https://youtu.be/_sltIisHseA

 

[Freggyragh]

Not sure I follow the point you’re making the BB - if a widget is currently matching Kitemark and CE Mark standards then it is likely to be acceptable for not only the EU, but all countries that have EU trade agreements and, whilst it might exceed the standards acceptable in some smaller markets it can choose to offer those markets an inferior version. Point is, if it’s meeting the highest standards for the biggest market already - is there an extra cost? The delusional idea that the U.K. will be able to ignore what the big markets are doing and that U.K. companies will be following Kitemark standards only is just nuts. If the U.K. brexits will international drug companies and component makers even bother applying for the Kitemark? 

[woolley]

Standards, Kitemarks, CE marks total red herring. It's the industries that set the standards of best practice anyway. As someone said the UK starts off with EU harmonized standards in any case, many of which derive from BSI/ISO practice. The UK is a centre of excellence and is hardly likely to engage in a diminution of quality. If the EU was just a "common market" trading area that would be fine. Oh wait; that was what we joined wasn't it?

[ballaughbiker]

Not according to Heath. He made it clear there would also be a degree of political union. Some have selectively forgotten this minor detail.

That aside, common standards are a key part of a "common market" surely?

[woolley]

7 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said:

Not according to Heath. He made it clear there would also be a degree of political union. Some have selectively forgotten this minor detail.

That aside, common standards are a key part of a "common market" surely?

Did you say that you were around at the time? If so, you should remember that such niceties were skated over very quickly as far as the general public was concerned and, of course, there was no referendum taking us in anyway. It was all played down as "nothing to frighten the horses". As I said before "standards" tend to be industry best practice in any case.

[ballaughbiker]

Fair comment, I think it was somewhat 'skated over' but it was said.

Nobody ever said membership would just be limited to trade which Haw Haw regularly declares as some sort of justification for his bile towards the EU.

[Non-Believer]

22 minutes ago, woolley said:

As I said before "standards" tend to be industry best practice in any case.

Like our and the UK's bathing water, drinking water, air and emissions standards were, pre-EU? Britain used to be called the "dirty man of Europe" IIRC. Acid rain and all that.

[John Wright]

1 hour ago, Non-Believer said:

Like our and the UK's bathing water, drinking water, air and emissions standards were, pre-EU? Britain used to be called the "dirty man of Europe" IIRC. Acid rain and all that.

And the sick man of Europe for its poor productivity, low out put, stop go economy, lower than G5, G7 or EEC growth ( long term trend ), constant sterling crises, balance of payment crises, £50 limit on taking sterling abroad, constant strikes, poor quality, three day weeks, power cuts.