RIchard Britten Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, woolley said: Four years minimum to train a nurse is part of what's wrong with the system ... Not really. I would rather that the people entrusted with the health and physical care of the nation are as well trained and experienced as possible. Quote ...the more on the job training the better... Yet impractical as there are only so many people you can get around a bed and an actual nurse... Quote Interesting that you believe that it is more acceptable to bring people from elsewhere to do shitty hours for shitty wages than to reform the system. Strawman. I believe that nurses should be paid far more than they are at the moment, however, the reality of nurses hours and wages at the moment means that fully qualified and experienced nurses from overseas that are willing to work under those conditions are the only realistic and timely way to fill the skills gap that is present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: May I introduce you to the former Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, Mr Dominic Raab. The below are taken from http://dominicraab.com/ "Dominic was appointed Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union. He resigned on 15 November 2018." "I want to strengthen your democratic voice – including by delivering on the EU referendum and through greater local democracy." That is a "brexiteer" who was responsible for running the negotiations with the EU before he resigned from in disgust at the deal he had overseen!! What does that mean? It is a bit like a vague mission statement. What will the UK be able to do following leaving the EU that it cannot do now? National control of legislation and courts in full. No legislation from elsewhere that has to be accepted by the UK and no court of justice superior to a British court. The buck stops in London. You know who to credit and who to blame and if you don't like it you can change it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 18 minutes ago, woolley said: National control of legislation and courts in full. No legislation from elsewhere that has to be accepted by the UK and no court of justice superior to a British court. The buck stops in London. You know who to credit and who to blame and if you don't like it you can change it. Ah yes. The hatred of the ECJ imposing all those workers rights, statutory water cleanliness, provenance of food etc etc that are the bete noir of brexiteers everywhere. What a hoot that is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 1 minute ago, P.K. said: Ah yes. The hatred of the ECJ imposing all those workers rights, statutory water cleanliness, provenance of food etc etc that are the bete noir of brexiteers everywhere. What a hoot that is! The UK is quite capable of looking after its own standards. I find it hilarious that folk would prefer to take an education from Brussels than to trust in our ability to govern ourselves. It is a malady that has overtaken us in recent decades until half the population believes it. Quite ludicrous. Wake up people! We are better than this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 1 hour ago, woolley said: National control of legislation and courts in full. No legislation from elsewhere that has to be accepted by the UK and no court of justice superior to a British court. The buck stops in London. You know who to credit and who to blame and if you don't like it you can change it. Would those be the same British Courts presided over by Judges that the Daily Mail branded "Enemies of the People"? I realise you don't necessarily share that view but the Daily Mail were an organisation that heavily promoted the leave argument so branding British Judges in such a way is hardly supportive of returning the final say to the UK courts. Most of the legislation we have in the UK has been introduced by UK Governments. The EU generally has focused on regulatory alignment and sometimes that means that the ECJ needs to make a ruling that encompasses every member state. What I hope we really avoid is having the leading Judges appointed by the Government. The US model is worrying indeed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 Strange innit, that Scotland can have its own laws within the EU and stranger still that some on here still think the EU governance is something in which we have no absolutely no say. Can't wait to buy 150W incandescent lamps again after halloween I thought regulatory alignment was good anyway. When is it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: Strange innit, that Scotland can have its own laws within the EU and stranger still that some on here still think the EU governance is something in which we have no absolutely no say. Can't wait to buy 150W incandescent lamps again after halloween I thought regulatory alignment was good anyway. When is it not? When it comes by diktat. Each member has one voice in 28. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 3 hours ago, woolley said: The UK is quite capable of looking after its own standards. I find it hilarious that folk would prefer to take an education from Brussels than to trust in our ability to govern ourselves. It is a malady that has overtaken us in recent decades until half the population believes it. Quite ludicrous. Wake up people! We are better than this. Dear me. Fancy an EU directive enforced by the ECJ on things like unscrupulous employers being made to give their employees basic rights like holidays. "Those ECJ bastards!" I hear you say.... What was your response Woolster? I seem to recall it was something like "They're very good at spending other people's money" or similar and absolutely dripping with sour grapery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 1 minute ago, P.K. said: Dear me. Fancy an EU directive enforced by the ECJ on things like unscrupulous employers being made to give their employees basic rights like holidays. "Those ECJ bastards!" I hear you say.... What was your response Woolster? I seem to recall it was something like "They're very good at spending other people's money" or similar and absolutely dripping with sour grapery. Very good at spending other people's money, well, yes. That is indeed all they do. Would you prefer unscrupulous employers to be dealt with by a foreign court rather than a UK one? If so, it follows that you believe an external body is more appropriate to managing British affairs than Britain itself. What a curious conclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 (edited) Quote When it comes by diktat. Each member has one voice in 28. Only a problem if you disagree with all 28. Has that ever happened? And if it did, there would likely be a very good reason why. Edited June 13, 2019 by ballaughbiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 Quote Would you prefer unscrupulous employers to be dealt with by a foreign court rather than a UK When did that happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 (edited) Quote When it comes by diktat Where's the "diktat" that allows eg NI to have its regressive abortion laws? Anyway which diktated regulatory alignment don't you like woolley and why? Edited June 13, 2019 by ballaughbiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 I was responding to PK's assertion of the "benefits" of the ECJ. Are we not adult enough to deliberate on these issues for ourselves without a superior authority issuing directives from outside? The situation leaves you open to the possibility in both scenarios which is an affront to an independent nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 (edited) No it's an affront to people conned into thinking we are being ruled by some malevolent government into which we have no input. It is not an affront to me. I quite like another power being the ultimate legal authority. If only we had that benefit and our AG wasn't the final arbiter.... Edited June 13, 2019 by ballaughbiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 1 hour ago, ballaughbiker said: No it's an affront to people conned into thinking we are being ruled by some malevolent government into which we have no input. It is not an affront to me. I quite like another power being the ultimate legal authority. If only we had that benefit and our AG wasn't the final arbiter.... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40630322 This site explains how the ECJ influence may need to be felt and accommodated for decades to come even after a hard NO Deal etc Brexit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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