manxman1980 Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 News from yesterday... UK Construction industry has suffered its worst month in 10 years. It was expected but the extent has been a surprise. Brexit uncertainty is a major factor. Trump has announced increased tariffs on certain products including Scotch whiskey in response to a dispute over support given to aircraft manufacturers. This is the same guy who is going to do the UK a wonderful trade deal? I am still baffled by the argument that the UK will be able to do wonderful trade deals post Brexit (at whatever point it happened) when the evidence is the UK will be a much smaller player than it has been. Add in the fact that UK manufacturing and now UK construction are suffering and that Hunt has pledged £6billion for farmers and fishermen in the event of a no deal Brexit due to the damage that will be done to them. Oh if that is not enough Hunt (I think it was him) has also said that any businesses who go bust as a result of Brexit are a price worth paying... Where are the sunlit uplands? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 13 hours ago, woolley said: If you have both forgotten, over 3 years ago there was a referendum in which 17.4 million people voted to leave the EU. It could have been done within a year and by now it would be history and all would be well, with trade on the up and sovereignty restored. For someone who claims to be the only one who can see reality, this is the biggest pile of unicorn based nonsense I have seen in a long time. There was never, ever, any way in hell that the UK was going to exit the EU in a year. Quote ...all would be well, with trade on the up and sovereignty restored. If you wish in one hand and shit in the other, all you end up with is wishes unfulfilled and a hand full of shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 12 hours ago, Freggyragh said: Petulant children. Turning their backs on the anthem and flag of the Council of Europe (the Council is distinct from the EU. It is was proposed by Churchill and established at the 1949 Treaty of London, with the UK as a the most influential founding member). The flag and anthem weren’t even adopted by the EU (then ECC) until 1985. Fraudage hates the idea that any entity except a national government should have a flag and anthem - as if he’s never seen the olympics, champions league or rugby World Cup. What a chump. Anyway, it’s been done before, as they no doubt know, dog-whistlers that they are (pre-war Nazis in the reichstag): I think they were turning their backs at the European parliament. The Council of Europe has 47 members and the EU currently has 27/28...The EU is run by the European council...The Council of Europe basically runs the European Convention on Human Rights and the European Court of Human Rights at Strasbourg...The Council of Europe produced the European flag and anthem in 1955 which was later adopted by that which today is the EU...The Council of Europe is not part of the EU as such and is an international body... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 16 hours ago, Freggyragh said: So, when the war with Iran kicks off, who decides if the U.K. will be in the thick of it, the sovereign U.K. parliament, or the EUSSR? The UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 15 hours ago, Freggyragh said: 18 hours ago, woolley said: he's still here morning, noon and night waiting to deliver the latest good news about the EU. It’s a brexit thread, duh. Yeah, but for sheer dedication and instant gratification, PK has the gig. We are all allowed some time off. If he isn't on the payroll then he certainly should be. You well know it’s the brekshitters on undeclared payrolls, including Chelsea townhouse and chauffeured limo. Hearsay, speculation. They have lots of taxpayers' money to waste, after all. So does Northern Ireland - the U.K. spends more propping up NI than it sends to the EU. NI is part of UK. What's your point? As for Freggy, well, congratulations on this latest post which is the epitome of diametric opposition to reality. Degrees of touchiness? Well if you are holding up my "bag carrier for the liberal elite" against your "bullshit", "dumb", "stale shit sandwich" etc, I don't think it's difficult to see who is on the shortest fuse. (Clue: It isn't me.) ’Bullshit’ and ‘stale shit sandwich’ are factual statements as regards the claims and reality of brexit. Apologies if I said brexit was ‘dumb’, I should have said ‘moronic’. Mere opinion (uncouthly expressed). Quote If you have both forgotten, over 3 years ago there was a referendum in which 17.4 million people voted to leave the EU. It could have been done within a year and by now it would be history and all would be well, with trade on the up and sovereignty restored. You’re just taking the piss here, surely? Davis, Raab and Fox have had over three years to sort out trade deals. I suppose you think no deal would make the bargaining position stronger, or a forceful leader like de Pfeffer or Sir Nigel could get a deal. No, I’ve read it again - you are taking the piss. Yup, almost fell for it, funny guy. No. We chose to follow the A50 procedure. Should have insisted on withdrawal and FTA being agreed simultaneously. That was the mistake. No deal not gonna happen so I don't know why you keep obsessing about it. Instead we have had a long period of obfuscation while the liberal elite try to work out how the hell they can duck the result and keep the UK in the EU, accompanied by all sorts of threats of dire prognostication about the fate that will befall anyone daring to step outside the "club". This is still a work in progress. It is the delay which is the national calamity and it will be exacerbated if the referendum result is successfully frustrated. You are either a comedy genius, or you live in a parallel universe where the U.K. hasn’t had its arse handed to it on a plate by all trade negotiators, even the Norwegians and Swiss. Don't be silly. Time will tell. (If the interminable process ever reaches a conclusion, that is.) Yes, I do understand sovereignty and so do many others. Clearly, you don't, or perhaps you just don't value it. You don’t understand it. You’re out of your depth. Self-evidently, you don't understand it, or the implications of diminishing it. If you did, you wouldn't cede it lightly. Despite your regular declarations to the contrary, I have never mentioned tungsten lamps in this context. Oh yes you have. That is, so far, your only concrete example of a possible tangible brexit benefit. The freedom to produce old tech Oh no, I haven't. (He's behind you!) You are as wrong on this as on everything else. On the other hand, I have set out the intractable problems created by the "one size fits all" EU and explored the likely circumstances of its eventual demise. Yes, I have. You have a selective eye that sees only what it wants to see. It sees no fault with the EU. You dream of a status quo which is built on sand as far as the future is concerned. Your latest gimmick is silly names, I see. Very good. ’Bag carrier for the liberal elite’? You’re such a touchy snowflake these days. Not in the slightest. Just here to inject a note of sanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 49 minutes ago, woolley said: The UK. These days it has to be voted in the Commons.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 54 minutes ago, woolley said: Not in the slightest. Just here to inject a note of sanity. This from the guy who thinks we would have had a clean Brexit in one year and everything would have been smelling of roses... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 1 hour ago, woolley said: Just here to inject a note of sanity. From the man who claims that the EU is to blame for the destruction of the Brazilian rainforest.... There's an air of desperation creeping in. 1 hour ago, woolley said: Yeah, but for sheer dedication and instant gratification, PK has the gig. You make it sound like I have a very appreciative readership. So thanks for that! I think so too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 1 hour ago, RIchard Britten said: This from the guy who thinks we would have had a clean Brexit in one year and everything would have been smelling of roses... Depends what you mean by "clean" but it would have been far better than what we've had. For business it is the uncertainty that is anathema. If you have certainty then you can plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 Interesting that Fox not only now says the prospect of an FTA with the EU without the backstop and divorce bill is ‘fanciful’ (aka bullshit), the prospect of rolling over existing FTAs with other countries is ‘unrealistic’ (aka bullshit) and a no-deal brexit would be ‘economically sub-optimal’ (aka a stale shit sandwich). Apologies for my uncouthness (you really are a touchy snowflake these days). I understand you have a big emotional investment in this fiasco, but you see, this isn’t just my opinion. Time has told, there is no unicorn. Still pretending that there is, or ever was a unicorn makes you the silly one. I suppose though, you’ll say it’s just my opinion. I suppose you’ll now say key Leave campaigner Liam Fox, who has been trying to negotiate the FTAs for three years, is now a traitor, a secret remoaner, a bag-carrier for the liberal elite’, or is he silly too? The only leg brexit has left to stand on now is the ‘democratic betrayal’ argument. We all know the real democratic betrayal was shysters such as Fox promising ‘sunlit uplands’, when they either didn’t understand the issues or just cared more for a few years in the limelight and the tax bill for their financial elite backers than they did about their country. They will now demand brexit on that basis because they are too vain or crooked to apologise for promising things they could never deliver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, P.K. said: From the man who claims that the EU is to blame for the destruction of the Brazilian rainforest.... There's an air of desperation creeping in. You make it sound like I have a very appreciative readership. So thanks for that! I think so too.... Oh, indeed you do. The hand-wringing and cussing is most entertaining. I don't do desperation, though. I have no need. I was having a bit of sport with you over the rainforest in part, but it is a salient point that they will accelerate the destruction to clear more land for agriculture to send cheap meat to Europe. That's why the Irish farmers are up in arms because it will hit them. Also, you are up in arms about US food standards but say nothing about South American food standards, which have had to be greatly improved specifically for the purpose of exporting to the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, Freggyragh said: I suppose though, you’ll say it’s just my opinion. It is. And of course straight from the Brussels manual of how to subjugate a continent. You're the ones who talk of unicorns. The sum total of what has actually happened in the 3 years is that the UK said to the EU "what can we have", and the EU has said "this", and the UK has said "alright". What kind of a farce is it where you agree to pay £39bn before you even know the future relationship? That isn't the way you conduct a negotiation. The EU has never budged in it's position because it has never been properly challenged to. I'm not holding my breath that it ever will be either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 The EU said the U.K. had to agree to pay what it owed before they would negotiate the rest. The U.K. can’t dictate terms to the EU - that is the reality we’ve been trying to explain to you. The EU has 359 trade deals with countries around the world, 72 of which are FTAs, making it one of the most open economies on earth. 70% of what enters the EU (and thus UK) enters at zero or reduced tariffs. The EU drives a hard bargain in its trade deals, for which it insists that high standards of social, environmental and human rights are respected, as such protecting its citizens from the onslaught of globalists. The EU has WTO ATP status with the 72 states it has a FTA meaning you need EU permission to do a trade deal with these countries, which the EU generously granted with the Withdrawal Agreement, following which (even though the WA has not yet been ratified) the UK begged these 72 countries to please roll over their terms of trade with the EU to the UK. Only a handful agreed to do so, most of them conditionally (eg South African countries said that will cost you 4£bn - just to keep the terms you currently enjoy). The UK then resorted to threatening poor countries like Ghana, Mauritius, Namibia, the Carribean, Cote d'Ivoire etc that if they do not roll over their terms of trade with the EU to the UK, the UK will impose punishingly high tariffs on their key export products. We are talking about the UK goverment threatening some of the world's poorest countries here. They didn't give in though. That's the UK open to business: bad-faith negotiations with poor countries and stamping their feet and screaming ‘it’s not fair’ with the rich countries and powerful trading blocks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Freggyragh said: The EU said the U.K. had to agree to pay what it owed before they would negotiate the rest. ............... Nobody can dictate terms to anybody if everybody wants to come out with the optimum situation going forward. It's a negotiation between adults, not a diktat from one side to the other. It's a massive bluff. Wake up! Edited July 3, 2019 by woolley 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 10 minutes ago, woolley said: It is. And of course straight from the Brussels manual of how to subjugate a continent. You're the ones who talk of unicorns. The sum total of what has actually happened in the 3 years is that the So arch-leaver Liam Fox is now quoting straight from the ‘Brussels manual of how to subjugate a continent’? They really should put Sir Nigel Fraudage in charge of negotiations - I’d love to see him quoting from the manual next. The sum total of what has actually happened in the 3 years is that the UK has had its arse handed to it on a plate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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