woolley Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 Just now, RIchard Britten said: Depends on whose logic you follow...someone with anti-EU bias will have a different to someone without said bias. So how would you see the logical conclusion of "ever closer union" with your pro-EU bias? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 8 minutes ago, woolley said: So how would you see the logical conclusion of "ever closer union" with your pro-EU bias? Why would ever closer union be a bad thing? Reduced red-tape, commonality of standards, ease of travel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 8 minutes ago, RIchard Britten said: Why would ever closer union be a bad thing? Reduced red-tape, commonality of standards, ease of travel? When it becomes a union that continually usurps power from the constituent states. I notice that you haven't actually said what you think the conclusion is. The destination of the direction of travel upon which it has been embarked for decades. Do you have a view of that? How much is too much? Or is a European government a positive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 1 minute ago, woolley said: When it becomes a union that continually usurps power from the constituent states. I notice that you haven't actually said what you think the conclusion is. The destination of the direction of travel upon which it has been embarked for decades. Do you have a view of that? How much is too much? Or is a European government a positive? What difference does it make who governs? We vote in the UK and get one side of the same shit coin. Whether we are governed by the EU or Westminster, what does it really matter to the bloke on the street? Whether Cersei or Danerys sits on the Iron Throne, will the winters be cold and the summers warm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 1 minute ago, RIchard Britten said: What difference does it make who governs? We vote in the UK and get one side of the same shit coin. Whether we are governed by the EU or Westminster, what does it really matter to the bloke on the street? Whether Cersei or Danerys sits on the Iron Throne, will the winters be cold and the summers warm? Not a patriot then. Don't believe in the nation state at all. A bit John Lennon "Imagine". Yep. I get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 I see we have steered back around to a Woolster staple "Sovereignty", despite that myth being debunked over and over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 1 minute ago, woolley said: Not a patriot then. Don't believe in the nation state at all. A bit John Lennon "Imagine". Yep. I get it. Patriotism the last refuge of the scoundrel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 1 minute ago, RIchard Britten said: I see we have steered back around to a Woolster staple "Sovereignty", despite that myth being debunked over and over again. Just now, RIchard Britten said: Patriotism the last refuge of the scoundrel... Sovereignty has never, and can never, be debunked. It is the bedrock of national security. It's what enables you to sleep secure in your bed at night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 1 minute ago, woolley said: Sovereignty has never, and can never, be debunked. It is the bedrock of national security. https://www.chathamhouse.org/publication/britain-eu-and-sovereignty-myth Apparently it has, can be and is... Quote It's what enables you to sleep secure in your bed at night. No it doesn't. Multi-barrel locks and a firm mattress bed allow me to sleep securely in my bed at night. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 Whatever opinions you hear from the siren voices saying that sovereignty is a myth, they are misguided and dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 It is becoming easier to see Brexit cheer leaders in the same light as anti-vaxxers, flat-earthers, space deniers, 5G panickers, etc. They are full on Dunning Kruger's, they think everything is a globalist conspiracy to rule them, no matter what evidence you show them, they don't trust it, or they call you an agent/shill of the very shadowy organisation they are afraid of. But at least they get that narcissistic personality buzz of superiority as they "know" they are the awakened ones and everyone else asleep. Before Brexit came into their lives, they felt marginalised and apart from normal society for some reason, but now they have a club/cult and they are part of something. Like flat-earthers, there are many factions with in the Brexiteers (hard brexit, soft brexit, etc) and no-one party truly represents "Brexit" because no-one is able to define what Brexit really is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, woolley said: Whatever opinions you hear from the siren voices saying that sovereignty is a myth, they are misguided and dangerous. Are they hollywood shills or agents of NASA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 Moving the subject on a bit two "interesting" items from yesterday; The Conservative Majority is now down to 1 following the Liberal Democrats winning the Brecon byelection yesterday. In the process of winning the seat they overturned the Tories previous majority of 8,000 so a pretty impressive performance from a party that were virtually wiped out at the last General Election. Obviously the result was helped by other pro-remain parties not fielding candidates but there does seem to be some cooperation between remain supporting parties. Leave supporting parties for some reason cannot seem to unite behind anything... A programme aired last night, "Portillo: The Trouble with the Tories" in which he explored (not in great depth) why the Tory party is so divided. They went back to Margaret Thatcher and her desire to have the UK in the Custom's Union and other senior Tories believing that the UK should be at the head of the EU and not relegated to a small voice. What I found telling was that Thatcher was the one who referred to the "United States of Europe" when she went through an anti-EU period and wanted the press onside with her. Interesting that the phrase is still being used today... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 47 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Interesting that the phrase is still being used today... Which should tell you something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/monster-raving-loony-party-finishes-off-ukip-by-beating-them-in-by-election-1-6195062?fbclid=IwAR3sqC_WzQbScKliLgvErtrgWRiLQqKGouVLBKPjqFMFyFf-aVvHrjfXpUA Joke party beat trojan horse party. Brexit is a comedy that keeps writing itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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