woolley Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 EU regulation on shorting is very restricted indeed. Under EU law, ESMA can suspend short selling in an emergency situation. But what does that mean? Not a lot, in practice. The UK legally challenged the law but lost. In my opinion the practice should be banned totally, so I would go further than the EU position. Even if EU regulation was up to scratch on this, I believe that the prize of regaining full national sovereignty trumps individual regulatory measures for better or for worse. As I've said before, if our stable needs sweeping out, we should be the ones to do it, not some supranational authority with powers beyond that of the state. That is a very slippery slope that you really don't want to get to the bottom of. Too many otherwise intelligent people see only as far as trade and the status quo. They do not look beyond that to the future and where it all might end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 1 hour ago, woolley said: ...assumed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 45 minutes ago, woolley said: ...full national sovereignty... As you will find out after watching the Big Hack, sovereignty no longer exists as you wish it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Quote I just assumed it was another conspiracy theory. There are a lot of them about. Quote They do not look beyond that to the future and where it all might end. Irony? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Why would I take the word of something called "The Big Hack"? It doesn't sound the most reliable of sources. Unless it fits your agenda, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 55 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: Irony? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 12 minutes ago, woolley said: Why would I take the word of something called "The Big Hack"? It doesn't sound the most reliable of sources. Unless it fits your agenda, of course. Oh dear lord... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 7 hours ago, RIchard Britten said: So...The Big Hack. Who has seen it? If you still believe that Brexit has anything to do with "sovereignty" after watching it, you are either: A) Gaining from Brexit B) Indifferent C) Too stupid to see that the wool has been pulled over your eyes. I found this precis of it. I assume that this is what you refer to: "The Great Hack." https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a28517243/the-great-hack-netflix-cambridge-analytica/ What does it tell us that's new? We knew already that CA was farming personal data, but beyond that, if the information on the above link is authentic, it doesn't say much. A lot depends on how effective you consider targeted online propaganda to be. It seems to take at face value CA's claims for the efficacy of its operations, but you have to remember that they were a commercial operation selling this as a service to political forces, so they would say that they have the electorate eating out of their hand, wouldn't they? Personally, I don't believe that this would change anyone's mind at all, and certainly not many. All they were doing were identifying individuals from their online profiles who were likely to be receptive to messages to vote in a certain way. Well surely if they were receptive to the message, they were going to vote accordingly anyway. If they sent a load of pro-Brexit propaganda to me, would that change my view? If they sent it to you, would it change yours? Of course not. I agree that mining the data is sinister, but I think that the electoral ramifications are being blown out of proportion by those seeking to find an explanation that fits their agenda for democratic votes that went in the opposite direction to that they desired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 10 minutes ago, RIchard Britten said: Oh dear lord... He won't help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Quote What does it tell us that's new? Well the clever thing about watching it is, you'd find out. Seeing as this is an on going global investigation, this is still highly relevant. Again, just get off the kool-ad for just shy of 2 hours and maybe learn something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, woolley said: ...I think that the electoral ramifications are being blown out of proportion... Then you have no idea of the reach or scope of what happened and what is still happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 It was all so much simpler when we could just blame Russia. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said: It was all so much simpler when we could just blame Russia. Well their dabs were all over CA, so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, RIchard Britten said: Then you have no idea of the reach or scope of what happened and what is still happening. Well explain how and why then. The people they identified were those who were receptive to certain messages, so all that was happening was that their preconceived ideas were being nurtured. How would that make them vote differently to their original intention? As I said, if they sent you Brexit propaganda, it would not have had the slightest effect, because you have a fixed view. Likewise myself. You might say that perhaps some of them wouldn't have voted at all had they not been wound up online, but that would be a poor argument from a supposed democrat. The more people who vote, the better. Your assessment above is a subjective analysis that comforts you with the conclusion you desire, i.e. the vote was gerrymandered. You fail to give any credit that people might actually be capable of thinking for themselves. If I was being bombarded with manipulative material, being the cussed individualist that I am, I would be more likely to vote the opposite way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 1 minute ago, woolley said: Well explain how and why then. The people they identified were those who were receptive to certain messages, so all that was happening was that their preconceived ideas were being nurtured. How would that make them vote differently to their original intention? As I said, if they sent you Brexit propaganda, it would not have had the slightest effect, because you have a fixed view. Likewise myself. You might say that perhaps some of them wouldn't have voted at all had they not been wound up online, but that would be a poor argument from a supposed democrat. The more people who vote, the better. Your assessment above is a subjective analysis that comforts you with the conclusion you desire, i.e. the vote was gerrymandered. You fail to give any credit that people might actually be capable of thinking for themselves. If I was being bombarded with manipulative material, being the cussed individualist that I am, I would be more likely to vote the opposite way. For some reason, I knew I was wasting my time with you on this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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