P.K. Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Max Power said: I think we are getting too hung up on the personalities involved and the nature of people who support either side. We need to see past this in order to progress. Does narcissistic serial philanderer and inveterate liar Boris Johnson even have a personality? Thinking about it he probably has several.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 7 hours ago, John Wright said: Paging @Barrie Sorry to be slow but I been caught up in a police raid on my gaff after drug dealers and a paedophile arrested in a flat down the corridor and then tonight I have been befriending a stray victim of the paedophile trying to get her into protective custody. .. Police said if you see her phone it in...I did...45 minutes on phone to Essex police HQ not half a mile away and they say they have no resources tonight. I gave her some cash to at least get food but she got no where to stay. She gone wandering out all alone... They put one of those paedos the vigilantes are after in my bleeding retirement home to care for them and this is what they do by way of gratitude. We are all pissed off as we are respectable seniors and they put a paedophile amongst us for his security … I told them he is a paedophile but no one listens. And people say Bazza makes it up... Same when I did night watchman at the Villa Marina it was always my watch when the fights and heart attacks and attempted suicides happened. We had ten big coppers crashing round here earlier but no resources for a little girl now wandering around the city as I write... Uncle Barrie tried his best. I called 999 and they said hold her down. I said I have no legal power to hold her down. Then I asked him are you actually a policeman and he said no he is a call handler... So roll on Boris with his 20,000 coppers cos at the moment Bazza is holding the fort... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 9 hours ago, Barrie Stevens said: Same when I did night watchman at the Villa Marina it was always my watch when the attempted suicides happened. Understandable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 On 8/6/2019 at 9:08 PM, woolley said: By then it would be too late. It isn't unsubstantiated. Evidence has been posted on here by myself and others over the years. Max has posted more above. Do you need us to draw you a picture? We hear a lot here about sticking with the status quo. There isn't one, because the stated aim is clear. "Ever Closer Union", and that's the way it's been moving treaty by treaty. I'm always being told that there is no such thing as sovereignty. Well, if we have a federal Europe controlled from the centre, there certainly won't be. A case of you don't know what you have until you lose it. There seem to be two types of Europhile. Those that actually would favour a federal European state and the far greater number who, despite form of long decades and copious evidence to the contrary, think it is simply a benign trading bloc without pretensions to statehood. If you are of the former group then, while it would be difficult to term your enthusiasm as logical, it is at least understandable, and you think you know what you are signing up to. If you are of the latter group, wake up! It's get out now or join the pan-continental federation. Which is it to be? Good comment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 On 8/6/2019 at 9:08 PM, woolley said: By then it would be too late. It isn't unsubstantiated. Evidence has been posted on here by myself and others over the years. Max has posted more above. Do you need us to draw you a picture? We hear a lot here about sticking with the status quo. There isn't one, because the stated aim is clear. "Ever Closer Union", and that's the way it's been moving treaty by treaty. I'm always being told that there is no such thing as sovereignty. Well, if we have a federal Europe controlled from the centre, there certainly won't be. A case of you don't know what you have until you lose it. There seem to be two types of Europhile. Those that actually would favour a federal European state and the far greater number who, despite form of long decades and copious evidence to the contrary, think it is simply a benign trading bloc without pretensions to statehood. If you are of the former group then, while it would be difficult to term your enthusiasm as logical, it is at least understandable, and you think you know what you are signing up to. If you are of the latter group, wake up! It's get out now or join the pan-continental federation. Which is it to be? #1 - one reason why Europe was a battlefield for hundreds of years is because the people of Europe have a very nationalistic fervour and outlook. So no more federal europe Project Fear nonsense based on bs. Thanks. #2 - the UK has prospered since it's EU membership. If it ain't broke, don't fix it...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 1 hour ago, P.K. said: #1 - one reason why Europe was a battlefield for hundreds of years is because the people of Europe have a very nationalistic fervour and outlook. So no more federal europe Project Fear nonsense based on bs. Thanks. #2 - the UK has prospered since it's EU membership. If it ain't broke, don't fix it...... #1. So it isn't a simple trading bloc as we were sold then. It's to stop wars in Europe. It won't. #2. It is broken. You don't appear to have the necessary receptors for information that discomforts you. Federal Europe is not based on bullshit unless you include EU planning in that description. And that sovereignty you keep telling us doesn't exist. The EU knows that it does because all of its plans talk of pooling more and more sovereignty in the progression to economic, financial and political union. Remember. Ever closer union. That is the destination and they are not shy about it. The status quo is merely an intermediate stop on the journey and a convenient one at which to alight. Or maybe you'd prefer to contemplate the continent as a single state? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 1 hour ago, woolley said: #1. So it isn't a simple trading bloc as we were sold then. It's to stop wars in Europe. It won't. When was the last time two members of the European Union were at war with each other whilst they were members of the EU? Hmmm..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 22 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: When was the last time two members of the European Union were at war with each other whilst they were members of the EU? Hmmm..... Nothing at all to do with the EU. It just so happens to have coincided with a time of peace through war weariness aftet ww2, the NATO shield, and nuclear weapons. Of course the EU pompously and disingenuously claims credit on a regular basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 Right... because there have been no wars anywhere else right? Remember the war to end all wars? How long did it take for another one to break out involving the same continent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 3 hours ago, manxman1980 said: Right... because there have been no wars anywhere else right? Remember the war to end all wars? How long did it take for another one to break out involving the same continent? No cold war, NATO or nuclear weapons then. All 3 do tend to concentrate the mind a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 18 hours ago, woolley said: Understandable. Explain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 Quote #1. So it isn't a simple trading bloc as we were sold then. It's to stop wars in Europe. It won't I think you know that Heath made it clear it was not just to be a simple trading bloc. It was discussed live on tv with Michael Foot. If you watch it, Heath made clear on numerous occasions there would also be a political union. Whilst this may not stop wars there is considerably less chance if there is political integration. What is remarkable is how many opposed to the EU manipulate discussion by introducing war terminology. That little shit François does it all the time as does Batten. It's clear why they do it but it disgusts me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 15 hours ago, woolley said: #1. So it isn't a simple trading bloc as we were sold then. It's to stop wars in Europe. It won't. #2. It is broken. You don't appear to have the necessary receptors for information that discomforts you. Federal Europe is not based on bullshit unless you include EU planning in that description. And that sovereignty you keep telling us doesn't exist. The EU knows that it does because all of its plans talk of pooling more and more sovereignty in the progression to economic, financial and political union. Remember. Ever closer union. That is the destination and they are not shy about it. The status quo is merely an intermediate stop on the journey and a convenient one at which to alight. Or maybe you'd prefer to contemplate the continent as a single state? @woolley Expected better. But then you haven't got a lot to work with I suppose. You seem unable to concede that europeans view the EU as a bulwark against future conflict. When abroad I guess we move in different circles. Or are you being deliberately obtuse? Because that wasn't the point I was making. This whole thread revolves around those who know how stupid it is to leave while as a country we're doing fine in the EU compared to those who think we have to get out to avoid what may, or may not, happen in the future. The point I was making, clearly not simply enough, is that coming out in this fashion is really stupid because we were doing fine and now we're in the middle of an almighty clusterfuck... Had we stayed in and the EU moved in a more federal direction weighing up the GENUINE pros and cons if it suited folks like me then fine. I would be for it. If it didn't suit me I would vote to leave. Simple as. As I posted above europeans are very patriotic, the rise of the far right across the EU bears testimony to that, so I'm sure if people like me vote to come out other member states will as well. In other words your Federal Superstate will NEVER happen with the UK as a member of it. Now give all the crystal ball gazing a rest.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 59 minutes ago, P.K. said: @woolley This whole thread revolves around those who know ......... compared to those who think ............ The above is correct. The problem with your whole approach is that you do not delve deep enough with an open mind to discern that you have them the wrong way around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 1 hour ago, woolley said: The above is correct. The problem with your whole approach is that you do not delve deep enough with an open mind to discern that you have them the wrong way around. As we are leaving THAT time will now never come. Even brexiteers must realise that. So stop trying to justify the current clusterfuck with more crystal ball gazing. It's no longer about your "What if's" as it's now all about the "Oh fuck's..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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