woody2 Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: You have heard of artificial intelligence and robotics haven't you? that women with the false leg in peel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 40 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: You have heard of artificial intelligence and robotics haven't you? Aye. I've also been around long enough to remember this discussion in the 1960s and 1970s, when we were told that by 2000 we would all be sitting with our feet up living a life of luxury while robots did all the work. I've seen the robots building cars, consumer durables and processing food. I've seen them stocking massive warehouses run by just a couple of people at keyboards. I deal daily with enterprises where work that would once have employed hundreds of people is done by half a dozen operators plus technology. The people who would otherwise have done that work have either reinvented themselves into the new technology or, for the many, they are engaged in menial work, often part time on low incomes. The blue collar middle income bracket is becoming obsolete. You are reckoning without the propensity of the rich powerful to keep advantage to themselves. You really think they are going to share the benefits of their investment with everyone on the planet? Unlikely. They are more likely to find ways to engineer a cull for those surplus to requirements. It will be very subtle of course, so that you don't notice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 1 hour ago, woolley said: You are reckoning without the propensity of the rich powerful to keep advantage to themselves. You really think they are going to share the benefits of their investment with everyone on the planet? Unlikely. They are more likely to find ways to engineer a cull for those surplus to requirements. It will be very subtle of course, so that you don't notice. Unfortunately there's only one planet which means we all have to share it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 4 hours ago, P.K. said: Unfortunately there's only one planet which means we all have to share it. says who........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 On 8/31/2019 at 10:35 AM, manxman1980 said: You have heard of artificial intelligence and robotics haven't you? it's not doing it for me......how about you......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 Received by hand today from the City Council an official form to complete listing all those in the household who are entitled to vote. It stresses this is not the same as the Register of Electors but there is still potential for £1,000 fine for failure to complete. General Election soon? Also the "Get Ready for no deal Brexit" campaign costing £100 million is under way... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyF Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 Hopefully its one of those forms that you don't have to post back and you can just ring an automated number to confirm the listing is correct or not. Then again... Unfortunately regarding Brexit, the BBC News 'paper review' thing a couple of days ago. I can't remember the man's name who was one of the two reviewers however what he said at one point rang true in that: They rejected May's deal three times They took control over Parliament to get their own solutions through None of their solutions passed by themselves, they rejected them all. Five or Six of them iirc They rejected No Deal They rejected No Brexit They do not know what they want. They only know what they *do not* want. No easy solution. A computer would of said "Error: Division by zero " I can in all honesty see why May being forced to take NoDeal off the table did weaken her hand anyway as the EU then knew she had to take within reason what was served up. I'm not convinced what Boris is doing is right however it is likely the only way to get some control back as they (Parliament) know he will really do it. The plans they have for Tuesday, well even if they did manage to force his hand and force him by law to go back to the EU to ask for an extension, there is no guarantee at all they would give us any extension. I think Macron was not too keen last time ? , and iirc all states must agree to it too. So the UK MP's are in a slight mess of their own making here, they can pass what laws they like but the extension decision rests with the EU. The only alternative is to revoke I suppose. Apparently that can be done without penalty regardless of how much the EU has spent on Brexit stuff, as the UK has too. The other choice, another referendum well that seems a bit like "you need to keep voting until we get the result we want" , what if the result was the same with a narrow 'leave' again ? Or worse still a narrow 'remain' ? Best of three ? It would be in a way a bit of a travesty to have another vote. A neighbour did actually say something a few weeks ago that stuck in my mind (and he voted to remain) he basically said that if the referendum had gone the other way and the remain had one by a tiny tad, the leave/brexit people would of been banished forever never to be heard again. Because it went for them the remainers are piping up all the time. Alt would be an election I suppose but at the moment I can see it being quite similar to how it is now after, with a tiny majority Cons govt returned or a Lab gov with a tiny majority. A coalition would not be a million miles away I suppose. The last one although quite disgraceful in many respects did mean some good (imo) in that the hardline Cons 'right' could not get all their way as the Lib-Dems's stopped them and vice versa in that the Lib-Dems' extreme left did not get their stuff either as the Con's put the brakes on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbie Bobster Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 Nice Drederick Tatum callback from the Irish Times today: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 2 hours ago, AndyF said: The plans they have for Tuesday, well even if they did manage to force his hand and force him by law to go back to the EU to ask for an extension, there is no guarantee at all they would give us any extension. I think Macron was not too keen last time ? , and iirc all states must agree to it too. So the UK MP's are in a slight mess of their own making here, they can pass what laws they like but the extension decision rests with the EU. The only alternative is to revoke I suppose. Apparently that can be done without penalty regardless of how much the EU has spent on Brexit stuff, as the UK has too. its non binding........just like the other let(eu)win/cooper bills....... its up to bj for the conditions of extension and its fairly easy to make it so the eu won't except those conditions....... merkel doing madron on live tv anyone...... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 4 hours ago, AndyF said: A neighbour did actually say something a few weeks ago that stuck in my mind (and he voted to remain) he basically said that if the referendum had gone the other way and the remain had one by a tiny tad, the leave/brexit people would of been banished forever never to be heard again. Because it went for them the remainers are piping up all the time. Your neighbour clearly fails to understand that Leave means a massive leap in the dark with all the uncertainty that comes with it whilst Reamain means maintaining the status quo where the UK is bouncing along quite nicely. Add to that mix all the lies by messers Farage, Gove and Johnson and folks are rightfully angry and concerned that their comfortable world is about to change for a great unknown... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyF Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 1 hour ago, P.K. said: Your neighbour clearly fails to understand that Leave means a massive leap in the dark with all the uncertainty that comes with it whilst Reamain means maintaining the status quo where the UK is bouncing along quite nicely. Add to that mix all the lies by messers Farage, Gove and Johnson and folks are rightfully angry and concerned that their comfortable world is about to change for a great unknown... Twas not my opinion although I could see why it was said. Well I think they are probably (all parties) slightly guilty of a bit of erm 'fact twisting' shall we say... 3 hours ago, woody2 said: its non binding........just like the other let(eu)win/cooper bills....... its up to bj for the conditions of extension and its fairly easy to make it so the eu won't except those conditions....... merkel doing madron on live tv anyone...... True, I suppose he could ask for something stupid to make sure they just tell him to go away (not exactly that but you see what I mean hopefully) , I think all I was trying to say was the UK parliament if MP's took over and managed to pass whatever they wanted, they can't force the EU to give the UK an extension as all EU states must agree to it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 3 hours ago, P.K. said: Your neighbour clearly fails to understand that Leave means a massive leap in the dark with all the uncertainty that comes with it whilst Reamain means maintaining the status quo where the UK is bouncing along quite nicely. Add to that mix all the lies by messers Farage, Gove and Johnson and folks are rightfully angry and concerned that their comfortable world is about to change for a great unknown... There is no status quo. It's a dynamic situation that is merely at a point on a journey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 1 hour ago, AndyF said: True, I suppose he could ask for something stupid to make sure they just tell him to go away (not exactly that but you see what I mean hopefully) , I think all I was trying to say was the UK parliament if MP's took over and managed to pass whatever they wanted, they can't force the EU to give the UK an extension as all EU states must agree to it... Of course the EU would grant an extension. They will do so for as long as they can keep holding their hands out for the money and for as long as they believe the whole thing might be reversed by a craven parliament. By jingo, if it were to be reversed would they make us pay for it in the long term! I don't think Johnson would even go back to the EU and ask for an extension under any circumstances, and this is why Gove would not confirm that the government will acquiesce in the face of a law passed ruling out No Deal. He would call an election and it would be fought on the principle that parliament gave this decision to you, you decided and now they have stopped us carrying it out your decision. What are you going to do about it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 22 hours ago, woody2 said: it's not doing it for me......how about you......... Soooo.... You either searched for this image or it turned up on a website you regularly visit. I think that says something about you. The point I was making about artificial intelligence and robotics as @woolley touched upon is the growing evidence that more jobs will be lost to technology. Woolley is right that technology has already taken away many unskilled or low-skilled repetitive work and now other jobs could be lost to technology such as professional drivers (taxi drivers, delivery drivers etc) being replaced by autonomous vehicles. That is then another swathe or the population who will be unemployed and our current society is not geared up for that. There is also ongoing discussions regarding the future of "white collar" work which has traditionally been seen as safe from automation. There are plenty of surveys showing what the future may hold in this regard so I won't go into detail here. Woolley is also correct that the beneficiaries from automation will not be the general population but will be those who own the means of production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyF Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 I'm not terribly keen on another referendum for reasons stated previously however there are a couple of schools of thought on it perhaps if it had to be done. The first would upset the remainers, in that the only options were to leave with a deal or without a deal, aka no remain option ;) The second one would be a choice of three, revoke / leave no deal / leave deal (probably May's deal as that was EU approved) , the thing with this is ideally the result should be immediately locked, as in the losing side(s) , that's it shuttup! We revoke/leave immediately. End of discussion. lol. Have to see how it pans out. I am not too sure I agree on the 'he won't go back' thing you could well be right in that he will simply call an election instead. But he would only be compelled by Parliament to go back , not to accept or agree to anything! Plus the fact the EU could say no (although as you say that's probably unlikely and I agree with this after more thought) , so he could quite well be going and tell them he wants some silly conditions just to make sure they say no, then he returns to parliament having done what the "new law" demanded aka: you must go and ask them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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