quilp Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 A fine example of how fucked up and downright nonsensical this whole process has become. Laughable... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lurker Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 11 minutes ago, quilp said: It has always been mutually beneficial, for many years. The sharing of intelligence has been reciprocal and the French and other EU states will no doubt have benefited from British intel networks. It will be their loss too. Actually, given the amount of terrorist acts committed on French soil that its 6 different security agencies failed to thwart doesn't provide a good reference for their effectiveness, having lost 275+ and a couple of thousand injured since the beginning of this century alone. Maybe it's naive to believe that all nations have a moral and ethical obligation to protect their peoples, regardless of bureaucracy. I agree that the relationship is mutually beneficial; my point though is that the system currently works due to agreements and accords that will be thrown on the no deal bonfire and will take time to be replaced; in the interim we are all far more vulnerable. France has clearly suffered a disproportionately high number of casualties from daesh inspired attacks; to criticise their security services without taking into account their geography, demographics and colonial history in Islamic counties is unfair. Not naive at all but without the bureaucracy; or to give it another name; a clearly defined legal paradigm for cross border cooperation all parties are powerless to work together. Information that does not pass through the correct channels is as good as useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lurker Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, quilp said: A fine example of how fucked up and downright nonsensical this whole process has become. Laughable... It would be insanity for any of the opposition parties to agree to Parliament being dissolved for an election before October 31st. Primarily to ensure no deal doesn't happen if you're a remainer but also to ensure that Johnson is subject to the most humiliation prior to going to the polls by being forced to do what he vowed he wouldn't; unless he goes nuclear and refuses to go to Brussels. I would expect a November election. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 8 minutes ago, The Lurker said: I agree that the relationship is mutually beneficial; my point though is that the system currently works due to agreements and accords that will be thrown on the no deal bonfire and will take time to be replaced; in the interim we are all far more vulnerable. France has clearly suffered a disproportionately high number of casualties from daesh inspired attacks; to criticise their security services without taking into account their geography, demographics and colonial history in Islamic counties is unfair. Not naive at all but without the bureaucracy; or to give it another name; a clearly defined legal paradigm for cross border cooperation all parties are powerless to work together. Information that does not pass through the correct channels is as good as useless. info sharing goes on bilaterally not via the eu.........it's not part of the eu....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 1 minute ago, The Lurker said: It would be insanity for any of the opposition parties to agree to Parliament being dissolved for an election before October 31st. Primarily to ensure no deal doesn't happen if you're a remainer but also to ensure that Johnson is subject to the most humiliation prior to going to the polls by being forced to do what he vowed he wouldn't; unless he goes nuclear and refuses to go to Brussels. I would expect a November election. it doesn't stop it.........they're chickens.......plenty of time if they win to pass any law they want....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 16 minutes ago, quilp said: A fine example of how fucked up and downright nonsensical this whole process has become. Laughable... abacus abbott was outside parliament at the same time saying stop the coup at a demo........i'm guessing she was referring to labour...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 What Labour 'coup' would that be Woody ? Christ, I'll be glad when this is all over, just so I don't have to read your shite ever again. Give it a rest, we know where you're coming from. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lurker Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 1 hour ago, woody2 said: it doesn't stop it.........they're chickens.......plenty of time if they win to pass any law they want....... It does stop it; the whole point of the law is that the UK cannot exit the EU by default without an agreement unless Parliament agrees. Was Boris a chicken for not immediately calling an election as soon as he became leader of the Tories to give him a mandate to lead? It's politics; all sides want an election at the most advantageous time. Johnson does not want to campaign (as he has been doing since taking over) after being forced to either go cap in hand to Brussels (something he vowed not to do) or forcing his own impeachment by breaking the law and refusing to go. Don't get me wrong; I'd like to see an election as soon as possible but not until after it's certain that no deal won't happen at the end of October; we have a lame-duck government which needs replacing as a matter of urgency but preventing no deal takes primacy over that. The whole thing is a shit-show because leaving the EU was always such a nebulous notion that it was impossible for there to ever be any kind of consensus on what it would actually imply and Boris Johnson; by lying to the public during the campaign should be held accountable for this very expensive mess in which the UK finds itself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 So the opposition think stopping Brexit is more important than democracy. ... erm. Sums up the cliche of the EU elite rather well that does. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lurker Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Chinahand said: So the opposition think stopping Brexit is more important than democracy. ... erm. Sums up the cliche of the EU elite rather well that does. And how is democracy being harmed? A democratically elected Parliament, acting under the auspices of an Act of Parliament (which was debated and enacted in a democratically elected Parliament) had a democratic vote to not hold a general election as per the terms of said Act. If it's democracy you're so concerned about then shall we discuss the prorogation of Parliament in an attempt to usurp the sovereign power vested in that institution? or how about sacking 21 MP's for taking part in a democratic vote and exercising their right to vote in the best interests of those they were democratically elected to represent? Better yet; let's talk about the un-elected puppet master that seems to be calling all the shots at Downing Street? Oh, and using the term 'EU elite' in the same sentence as the word 'cliche' is laughable. Simply apposing something that will drag a nation back into the economic and social dark ages does not make someone an 'elite'; especially when the arguments supporting it have turned out to be false. Edited September 6, 2019 by The Lurker typo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 Imagine being part of the 'opposition' at the moment. Should hang their heads in shame. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 What The Lurker said. Unless and until Parliament completely locks out any potential manoeuvre by those pulling Johnson's strings they'd be utterly stupid to contest an election, for the following reason: If there was any chance of still going out on a no-deal on 31st October, Farage would throw his candidates under the bus to get Johnson over the line. Corbyn has sat on the pot for three whole years, now's not the time to sh*t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lurker Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 20 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said: Corbyn has sat on the pot for three whole years, now's not the time to sh*t. Agreed; if he continues to prevaricate post 31/10 and makes a mess of this then he and Johnson can lift-share to the job center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Shake me up Judy said: What Labour 'coup' would that be Woody ? Christ, I'll be glad when this is all over, just so I don't have to read your shite ever again. Give it a rest, we know where you're coming from. labour keep calling bj a coup.......clearly if it was a election would be the easy way to sort it out...... 1 hour ago, The Lurker said: It does stop it; the whole point of the law is that the UK cannot exit the EU by default without an agreement unless Parliament agrees. Was Boris a chicken for not immediately calling an election as soon as he became leader of the Tories to give him a mandate to lead? It's politics; all sides want an election at the most advantageous time. Johnson does not want to campaign (as he has been doing since taking over) after being forced to either go cap in hand to Brussels (something he vowed not to do) or forcing his own impeachment by breaking the law and refusing to go. Don't get me wrong; I'd like to see an election as soon as possible but not until after it's certain that no deal won't happen at the end of October; we have a lame-duck government which needs replacing as a matter of urgency but preventing no deal takes primacy over that. The whole thing is a shit-show because leaving the EU was always such a nebulous notion that it was impossible for there to ever be any kind of consensus on what it would actually imply and Boris Johnson; by lying to the public during the campaign should be held accountable for this very expensive mess in which the UK finds itself. no it doesn't...... 1 hour ago, Chinahand said: So the opposition think stopping Brexit is more important than democracy. ... erm. Sums up the cliche of the EU elite rather well that does. well they wrote the bill........ 56 minutes ago, The Lurker said: And how is democracy being harmed? A democratically elected Parliament, acting under the auspices of an Act of Parliament (which was debated and enacted in a democratically elected Parliament) had a democratic vote to not hold a general election as per the terms of said Act. If it's democracy you're so concerned about then shall we discuss the prorogation of Parliament in an attempt to usurp the sovereign power vested in that institution? or how about sacking 21 MP's for taking part in a democratic vote and exercising their right to vote in the best interests of those they were democratically elected to represent? Better yet; let's talk about the un-elected puppet master that seems to be calling all the shots at Downing Street? Oh, and using the term 'EU elite' in the same sentence as the word 'cliche' is laughable. Simply apposing something that will drag a nation back into the economic and social dark ages does not make someone an 'elite'; especially when the arguments supporting it have turned out to be false. beause people wounldn't vote for them...... 48 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: Imagine being part of the 'opposition' at the moment. Should hang their heads in shame. agreed....... 33 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said: What The Lurker said. Unless and until Parliament completely locks out any potential manoeuvre by those pulling Johnson's strings they'd be utterly stupid to contest an election, for the following reason: If there was any chance of still going out on a no-deal on 31st October, Farage would throw his candidates under the bus to get Johnson over the line. Corbyn has sat on the pot for three whole years, now's not the time to sh*t. is nonsense....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lurker Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Bobbie Bobster said: Don't get sucked in! I now see your point................. Edited September 6, 2019 by The Lurker Edited to add unnecessary punctuation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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