So the UK is finished says Theresa Mayhem

[woolley]

2 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said:

 

Examples?

Obviously you are so used to your rights as a free citizen of your country that you are not even aware of them, nicely proving the point.

[woody2]

13 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said:

A lot of the bile on bookface and twatter is due to poor understanding of why and how directives come about. Some initially do seem ludicrous and over the top but on that ever so rare further investigation, are nearly always for the common good.

Entre nous , I was mildly pissed off when (eg) big watt incandescent lamps were stopped years ago and vacuum cleaner's power was limited. It would have been soooo easy to fall for Haw-Haw's clever mental picture of "being ordered about by a few old men" but I was wrong on both these example accounts. 

My son designs controls for (very) big electric motors for a global company and tells me than with just a little design effort, it is possible to get a much more efficient motor that uses less power than the type I initially wanted to continue to have the right to keep buying and what maniac would still buy 150W incandescent lamps (I won't stoop to jeer at an obvious candidate ) ?

Cherry picked examples with biased conclusions can always be found to justify a mad decision but in the vast majority of cases, EU directives on just about any topic are usually found to have sound basis that is for the general good of the majority.

Trouble is our current pm's earlier employment was writing a column for a now brexit supporting rag where he had to, on a daily basis, take the piss out of EU directives after he got the push for making up quotes from the previous rag.

but how mad is it moving the jobs out to asia.......wouldn't it be better that the are made within the eu under control.......

you can still buy them from abroad......

[woody2]

1 hour ago, The Lurker said:

Have you seen the current cabinet? 

more remoaners than leavers......

[woody2]

1 hour ago, The Lurker said:

You're straying into Woody2 territory there with that abstruse response.

 

just because you got it wrong.......

dont be such a loser.......

[The Lurker]

I'm asking the same question again because you're refusing to answer it; probably because you can't but I really do want to understand why you dislike the EU so much and in case you didn't read my post thoroughly and just went full-gammon after the first sentence I did actually ask a different question as you're struggling so much with naming laws you don't like.   

It is a question that cannot be answered because it is a step beyond where we are in the debate. How can I give you a list of EU laws I don't like when I do not accept the premise of an outside body legislating over a sovereign state in the first place? Asking how my independence of action has been affected is confusing the analogy, rendering your question meaningless.

Sorry; your response is just prevarication and obfuscation; you can't name laws the UK Parliament has been forced to enact by the EU that you want to get rid of that will make the UK 'better' because there are non. You can't explain how the EU restricts your freedoms because it doesn't. I haven't confused any analogy; you're avoiding a question because to answer it you will either have to make-up something ridiculous or admit that the leave campaign was founded on smoke and mirrors and that you were sucked in by the snake oil merchants.

Instead you patronisingly waffle about not understanding self-determination; I understand it; I also understand that I feel no more control over my governance with a bunch of over privileged morons in charge than a group of Europeans running the show. 

OK, so accept you understand it. In that case, like my good friend PK, you place no value on it which is far worse. You are effectively saying that we are incapable of clearing our our stable so let's have a foreign elite clique running the show instead. Perhaps you like the current clique, although they seem quite an unsavoury bunch. Future cliques? Maybe not so much? This is not just about Britain incidentally. I see the EU as just as dangerous to all of the European nations in which I spend a lot of time.

But why? What has the EU done that is so bad? As far as I can see EU laws and regulations are aimed at easing trade and improving the standard of living of of people within the block. 

Again I say that deriding those of us genuinely concerned about the implications of brexit as 'project fear' whilst claiming that the EU is run by some sinister elite clique (of which I see no evidence like say; they were all in the same elitist club at Oxford perhaps?) and that they have some kind of evil master plan without actually detailing what this plan might be is contradictory and more than a little paranoid.

I have the evidence of the last ten years to know that the UK is being run by an elitist clique hell bent on asset stripping the country to the benefit of them and their friends but I have no evidence that there is a corresponding plot at the head of the EU. 

Tell me why you're so frightened? Help me understand. I'm not asking trick questions.

[woody2]

56 minutes ago, Freggyragh said:

The problem with any trade agreement, even one that does not require membership of a trading bloc is that it will nearly always require the U.K. to legislate in accordance with the agreement. If the U.K. were to be in the situation of having to accept an FTA with the US then there would be an avalanche of legislation to rush through on everything from privatising medicine to lowering food standards. We have some idea of how a US trade deal would impact on sovereignty, and that’s why we’d like to know what particular bits of EU derived legislation (or, even just one bit) it is that you don’t like and think brexit would allow the U.K. to change.

no it wouldn't.......

[The Lurker]

13 minutes ago, woolley said:

5th largest economy in the world. Others far smaller seem to do pretty well.

But not in isolation; they trade internationally and make accommodations with their trading partners. the UK cannot be self-sufficient. not without taking a serious dent in living standards that we've all become accustomed to. 

[woody2]

2 hours ago, The Lurker said:

 

I have no objection to the EU directing my life as I quite like having human rights, cleaner air and limitations on the hours I can be made to work; all three of which I have severe concerns for if the current shower in government maintain control post brexit.

 

which is nothing to do with the eu.......

[woody2]

2 minutes ago, The Lurker said:

But not in isolation; they trade internationally and make accommodations with their trading partners. the UK cannot be self-sufficient. not without taking a serious dent in living standards that we've all become accustomed to. 

uk is restricted in the eu on international trade........try again......

[woolley]

22 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said:

 Entre nous , I was mildly pissed off when (eg) big watt incandescent lamps were stopped years ago and vacuum cleaner's power was limited. It would have been soooo easy to fall for Haw-Haw's clever mental picture of "being ordered about by a few old men" but I was wrong on both these example accounts. 

My son designs controls for (very) big electric motors for a global company and tells me than with just a little design effort, it is possible to get a much more efficient motor that uses less power than the type I initially wanted to continue to have the right to keep buying and what maniac would still buy 150W incandescent lamps (I won't stoop to jeer at an obvious candidate ) ?

I was narked about this too at the time, and I said so on here. Things have changed though, and so has my opinion. The latest low energy bulbs are far and away better than the early ones that took an age to brighten and gave everything they fell upon a deathly pallor. I am a convert. When circumstances change, I change my view. The ban was probably a few years early. It should have been implemented when the product became fit for purpose in which case objections would have been far fewer and less vehement.

Who would want a 150w incandescent bulb? My objection was not directly related to the EU at the time. It was in the context of the profligate waste of energy and resources on the planet generally. So much frivolous waste, but they objected to my having a low wattage bedside light bulb to read for 20 minutes before going to sleep.

 

[woolley]

14 minutes ago, The Lurker said:

 

 

Tell me why you're so frightened? Help me understand. I'm not asking trick questions.

(Sigh). It is based on big is beautiful. Despite what they say about subsidiarity (a demeaning term to the member nations if ever there was one), the drift is to policy laid down by the centre. Surely you can see that this one size fits all mantra has implications for the future. Consider the experience of the single currency.

[woolley]

43 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said:

A lot of the bile on bookface and twatter is due to poor understanding

This is certainly true. One girl interviewed on what she liked most about the EU answered "Definitely the NHS."

[manxman1980]

1 hour ago, woolley said:

It is a question that cannot be answered because it is a step beyond where we are in the debate. How can I give you a list of EU laws I don't like when I do not accept the premise of an outside body legislating over a sovereign state in the first place? Asking how my independence of action has been affected is confusing the analogy, rendering your question meaningless.

It can be answered... you just don't want to.

I can name UK legislation that I disagree with and think should be reviewed and amended (these are not covered by EU rules) for example the 70 mph speed limit on motorways.  Modern cars have better brakes and better tyres and that speed limit could be safely increased but the UK Government has shown no appetite to do it.

I don't agree with the legislation on fixed odds betting terminals.  They need to but much more controlled.

It's easy...  

As for EU legislation and regulations, my main objections is their treatment of the Isle of Man and constantly targeting the Island as a tax haven.  The fact that we can probably all name some millionaire/billionaire who claims to be resident here for tax purposes and that you can find several tiny offices all of which have five or six companies listed as being there mean there might be something in it after all. 

What I do like is being able to travel easily around Europe with minimum disruption.  I like the ability, even with the Isle of Man not being an EU member, to go and work in other EU countries without the need for work permits and visa's even though we make EU nationals apply for them here in the Island.  

You are an intelligent guy Woolley.  I am sure you can think of something that the EU are doing right now (not imaginary EU armies and a federal states of Europe) which you are looking forward to the UK Government repealing.

[manxman1980]

39 minutes ago, woolley said:

This is certainly true. One girl interviewed on what she liked most about the EU answered "Definitely the NHS."

And on that point UK citizens can wave goodbye to the E111 European Health Insurance Card come brexit. 

[ballaughbiker]

Quote

Obviously you are so used to your rights as a free citizen of your country that you are not even aware of them, nicely proving the point.

Nice dodge