Freggyragh Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 Just now, P.K. said: Personal insults and it's not even lunchtime. Not my fault your whinging about the QT panel choice is based on a false premise. Which reminds me.... It wasn’t really a personal insult. You were accused of ‘knob-endery’, not of being a knob-end. Many of us are guilty of knob-endery, or behaving like a knob-end from time to time, particularly when football is involved. The target of quilp’s post was your claim that living standards will fall in the event of brexit. That’s highly debatable, and depends on your viewpoint. The loss of so much free trade and the increase in bureaucracy, tariff and non-tariff barriers will, in most reasonable calculations, mean brakes on growth and possibly a fall in GDP. It doesn’t follow that this will lower standards of living - there might be areas of life that improve, although, try as I might, I can’t get a brexshitter to explain what that might be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Freggyragh said: It wasn’t really a personal insult. You were accused of ‘knob-endery’, not of being a knob-end. Many of us are guilty of knob-endery, or behaving like a knob-end from time to time, particularly when football is involved. The target of quilp’s post was your claim that living standards will fall in the event of brexit. That’s highly debatable, and depends on your viewpoint. The loss of so much free trade and the increase in bureaucracy, tariff and non-tariff barriers will, in most reasonable calculations, mean brakes on growth and possibly a fall in GDP. It doesn’t follow that this will lower standards of living - there might be areas of life that improve, although, try as I might, I can’t get a brexshitter to explain what that might be. the loss of 12000 eu tariffs from imports from the rest of the world..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 18 minutes ago, Freggyragh said: It wasn’t really a personal insult. You were accused of ‘knob-endery’, not of being a knob-end. Many of us are guilty of knob-endery, or behaving like a knob-end from time to time, particularly when football is involved. The target of quilp’s post was your claim that living standards will fall in the event of brexit. That’s highly debatable, and depends on your viewpoint. The loss of so much free trade and the increase in bureaucracy, tariff and non-tariff barriers will, in most reasonable calculations, mean brakes on growth and possibly a fall in GDP. It doesn’t follow that this will lower standards of living - there might be areas of life that improve, although, try as I might, I can’t get a brexshitter to explain what that might be. Quilp knows the projections just like everyone else. As per he's just trying to start a pissing contest and I decided a while ago I wasn't going to indulge him. "there might be areas of life that improve, although, try as I might, I can’t get a brexshitter to explain what that might be...." Quite. There are pages and pages on the downside to brexit but on the upside there are just vague mentions of illusory sovereignty that we never lost, control of our borders that we've always had and more cash to the NHS/Welfare that was unnecessarily cut by the government under the guise of "austerity". It's hard to see an upside.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 10 minutes ago, P.K. said: Quilp knows the projections just like everyone else. No I don't. 10 minutes ago, P.K. said: As per he's just trying to start a pissing contest and I decided a while ago I wasn't going to indulge him. No I'm not. 10 minutes ago, P.K. said: It's hard to see an upside.... Must try harder... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 43 minutes ago, woody2 said: the loss of 12000 eu tariffs from imports from the rest of the world..... You need to first study WTO rules, then consider the implications and feasibility of having zero rate tariffs across the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 27 minutes ago, P.K. said: Quilp knows the projections just like everyone else. As per he's just trying to start a pissing contest and I decided a while ago I wasn't going to indulge him. "there might be areas of life that improve, although, try as I might, I can’t get a brexshitter to explain what that might be...." Quite. There are pages and pages on the downside to brexit but on the upside there are just vague mentions of illusory sovereignty that we never lost, control of our borders that we've always had and more cash to the NHS/Welfare that was unnecessarily cut by the government under the guise of "austerity". It's hard to see an upside.... It’s hard to see an upside if your upsides are all concerned with general material prosperity, cheap travel, cultural diversity, state pensions, state education and accessible healthcare - all of which rely on an economic model that is causing terrible harm to the planet, might well be unsustainable, and encourages the population to shun personal responsibility for their families and communities. Just a thought, but a bit of negative growth might have some upsides you haven’t considered. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Freggyragh said: You need to first study WTO rules, then consider the implications and feasibility of having zero rate tariffs across the board. https://thebalticbriefing.com/magazine/wto-ambiguous-fortunes-for-trade/ Try this if it works...WTO feature... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Freggyragh said: You need to first study WTO rules, then consider the implications and feasibility of having zero rate tariffs across the board. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/temporary-tariff-regime-for-no-deal-brexit-published Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Freggyragh said: It’s hard to see an upside if your upsides are all concerned with general material prosperity, cheap travel, cultural diversity, state pensions, state education and accessible healthcare - all of which rely on an economic model that is causing terrible harm to the planet, might well be unsustainable, and encourages the population to shun personal responsibility for their families and communities. Just a thought, but a bit of negative growth might have some upsides you haven’t considered. The issue I have with that is that those with the least always get hurt the most. A crucial measure of a civilisation is how well they look after their most disadvantaged citizens. Tory austerity = Fail. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 21 minutes ago, P.K. said: The issue I have with that is that those with the least always get hurt the most. A crucial measure of a civilisation is how well they look after their most disadvantaged citizens. Tory austerity = Fail. Strange that so many disadvantaged immigrants seem to see it as a land of shining opportunity then, isn't it? So much so that they will risk life and limb to reach it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 16 minutes ago, woolley said: Strange that so many disadvantaged immigrants seem to see it as a land of shining opportunity then, isn't it? So much so that they will risk life and limb to reach it. Or perhaps it's because they have been displaced from their home countries by war or economic issues and feel it is easier to live and work in the UK as they often speak English as a second language. The curse of Empire teaching the world to speak English! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 13 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Or perhaps it's because they have been displaced from their home countries by war or economic issues and feel it is easier to live and work in the UK as they often speak English as a second language. The curse of Empire teaching the world to speak English! I'm quite sure that this is true in some cases, however many have little English on arrival. All have passed through multiple safe countries on the way and some actually have better French than English! But if the country was such purgatory for the disadvantaged as PK is advising us, why would any disadvantaged person go through hell and high water to reach it? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, woolley said: I'm quite sure that this is true in some cases, however many have little English on arrival. All have passed through multiple safe countries on the way and some actually have better French than English! But if the country was such purgatory for the disadvantaged as PK is advising us, why would any disadvantaged person go through hell and high water to reach it? Nothing at all to do with UK being a soft touch when it comes to handouts... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 24 minutes ago, Neil Down said: Nothing at all to do with UK being a soft touch when it comes to handouts... Illegals do not get handouts or benefits unless they claim asylum. Then they get a little help but not much. Many illegals vanish into the black economy working for those migrants established here often hiding on business premises. If they can hang on for 14 years they get made legal anyway. There are many jobs where employers are not too fussy about employing illegals and I know of many old folk who will happily employ an illegal as a carer on cut price terms. https://www.gov.uk/asylum-support/what-youll-get Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lurker Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 28 minutes ago, Neil Down said: Nothing at all to do with UK being a soft touch when it comes to handouts... But the UK doesn't have to be; any member state can deport someone who after three months of arriving has no means of support; they just chose not to. Try going to Belgium without any money in the bank and no job and see how far you get. It is not the EU's fault that successive British governments couldn't be arsed to deal with EU immigrants that don't work or perhaps the number was so low that it wasn't economically viable to deport? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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