London Terror Attack

[RIchard Britten]

 

 

http://news.sky.com/story/man-tries-to-drive-into-shopping-street-at-high-speed-in-antwerp-10811487

 

Muslim once again.

 

Edit: Woody beat me to it

 

Terrorist of Middle Eastern ethnicity would be more accurate...or are we only calling terrorists by their "religion" now?

 

Is the religion of the person involved relevent to their motivation? Clearly this is. Religion is a dominant part of the narrative the terrorists themselves use.

 

 

But that is the problem. He is motivated by his personal brand of Islam, not the brand of Islam practiced by millions of peaceful Muslims world wide.

 

The same in which people distance themselves from Jewish, Buddhist or Christians who state religion as their motivations...regardless of how misguided that individual is.

[Chinahand]

Yes, and that is why we have words like Islamist and Islamo-fascist. These words do not mean Muslim but a violent, intolerant interpretation of that crede. There are other possible interpretations - we are dealing with narrative structures which are basically un-grounded on evidence - there is no such thing as a true Muslim only varying interpretations of what that word means.

[RIchard Britten]

So why do "we" have to use the term "Muslim Terrorist" when "Terrorist" is the more accurate term?

 

We either have to start using sectarian terminology across the board or not at all.

[Chinahand]

That is what they call themselves.

 

The interpretation of Muslim and Islam is what THEY are emphasising, not us.

 

I repeat this isn't the only interpretation possible and that does need to be highlighted, but to pretend these people aren't using the narrative of their religion to motivate their actions is to miss half the story.

 

Hence "a British sort of Muslim" - if the interpretation of Islam this man is pushing is successful it has no part in British culture. British culture rejects this interpretation of Islam. There are others.

[woody2]

 

 

Come on PK...you know as well as I do, one man goes armed, the other checks the ID card...

The police, especially in the cities, are more regularly armed then folks think. It's all about the level of risk. And in this case I think they got it wrong.

 

Presumably he was wearing a stab proof vest?

 

looks like he was,that tobias ellwood is a fucking hero

 

its been reported injury was to the neck

[RIchard Britten]

But by repeating their "intent" to be labelled as Muslim Terrorists, are we not lending legitimacy to their intent?

 

This also serves to fuel anti-Muslim sentiment (as displayed on this very forum) towards peaceful Muslims, which again is the intent of the terrorist.

 

Perpetuating the cycle of violence is going to make the violence go away.

[woody2]

i would recommend watching andrew neil's opening speech on bbc1's this week (shown last night)

 

 

best speech since Churchill........

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mvhd

[Shake me up Judy]

Many, many thousands of Muslims live, work, and get on with their lives in London. The overwhelmingly vast majority of them love the city and some of them have done really well. Take a look around next time you're there. This deluded and brainwashed individual didn't represent them.

 

That said, it was once again depressing to see Baroness Arsi (sic) fence sitting on the news last night, when she should've been speaking out against these lunatics.

[RIchard Britten]

Would it make any difference if she did?

 

She makes a statement she gets called an apologist and "its lip service/empty words/etc" and if she doesn't say anything she gets it equal measure.

[paswt]

It's a funny old world SmuJ one only has to see the turnout for the recent funeral in Ireland and the eulogies from the representatives of nations for someone who was a 'terrorist' .

[RIchard Britten]

Branding every enemy we make as a "terrorist" (i.e. "we are fighting terrorists in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, etc") makes it easier to create a single enemy to focus the public "outrage" towards...(like the Commies during the Cold War).

 

The West pitch up, instigate a regime change, brand anyone who doesn't toe the line as an insurgent/terrorist and then it makes it easier to justify the continued invasion. Happened in Afghanistan, then Iraq and we are trying the same in Syria.

 

Watched Rambo 3 again the other day. The unintentional irony of the film is bloody hilarious.

[Shake me up Judy]

Your raggedy-ass student politics was bankrupted a long time ago, yet there are always new converts who come along thinking they're the first to see through the myths and lies of the West to the real truths and clear political insight. It's heady stuff isn't it. When I was doing politics at university you could tell even the lecturers didn't believe the shit they were paid to teach anymore. The ideology of the 60's and 70's had been exposed as just another religion - albeit secular. It's no coincidence either that Christianity started out as an ideology of the underdog but was soon corrupted and used against its millions of followers, until most people started to wake up.

 

Your equivocation gives the game away Richard. Your posts on this topic are just tired old cliches we've heard a million times over from every bedsit student socialist that ever had a poster on his 10x8 bedroom wall.

 

I agree with Woody2. Andrew Neil's opening monologue on This Week said it all. It takes real experience, real knowledge, judgement and wisdom to speak those words. Qualites that you haven't got yet.

[Chinahand]

Richard, these people are terrorists - this is not fake branding, it is the reality of what they are doing and what they desire: indiscriminate slaughter.

 

The words Islamist and Terrorist are useful and meaningful in describing them.

 

Muslims have to repudiate the aspects of their religion these people glorify to be a part of a moderate modern society.

 

There is such a thing as the legitimate use of force - and I'm not going to pretend the West comes up smelling of roses in its actions in the Middle East over the last few decades, but as ever you are missing too much out in your sloganeering.

 

The Taliban generally are treated by the British Army as legitimate combatants according to the Geneva Conventions. The simple fact is by your actions you are known - when Taliban act as combatants they get the protections combatants deserve; when they behave like terrorists they become criminals and can be treated as such.

 

I hope you can see the difference between these two and how atrocities like that in London are not the actions of a legitimate combatant, but a criminal terrorist.

 

There are instances where even IS members should be treated under the Geneva conventions - but that does not protect them when they commit genocide, rape, slavery and torture, or when they aspire to indiscriminately slaughter civilians in Europe.

[woody2]

I agree with Woody2. Andrew Neil's opening monologue on This Week said it all. It takes real experience, real knowledge, judgement and wisdom to speak those words. Qualites that you haven't got yet.

 

balls of steel that man....

[woody2]

 

“Keith Palmer had been a copper for 15 years, a husband, a dad, brother, uncle, public servant. Before joining the police, he’d been in the army, defending our nation

 

“Yesterday he was murdered defending our democracy, defending the very heart of our democracy from a barbarian at the gate.

 

“Just doing his duty, reminding us of something we badly needed reminding, that this most important people in this country are not the rich, the powerful, the famous but those who run to confront the enemies of our civilisation while the rest of us are running away. First responders like PC Palmer.

 

“Brutally stabbed to death by a jumped-up jihadi, not fit to breathe the same air as the man he killed.

 

“Now I know there are still some ‘Jihadi Johnnies’ out there who think they will eventually triumph because their love of death is greater than our love of life.”

 

“Do you have any idea who you’re dealing with?

 

This is the country that stood up alone to the might of the Luftwaffe, air force of the greatest evil mankind has ever known.

 

“If you think we’re not going to be cowed by some pathetic, Poundland terrorist in an estate car with a knife, then you’re as delusional as you are malevolent.

 

“Yes, you have the power to hurt us. Sometimes the hurt is more than we can bear - but you cannot defeat us.

 

“Because for every brainwashed, brain dead Islamist you send to do us harm, we have thousands upon thousands of Keith Palmers. You find them in every walk of life and in every part of the land, they come in all shapes, all sizes, all colours, all faiths. They are the British people and against them you will never prevail.”