Taxpayers to dig for £20M for Liverpool Dock

[emesde]

The project looks lovely, as it should for the cost. Unfortunately it will be seen as the Liverpool departure terminal and little will be seen as input from  the Isle of Man. 

It made me think about other uk terminals I have used.           Plymouth, Poole, Portsmouth Dover, Harwich, Hull, Newcastle. 

Not one of them comes near to what is planned for Liverpool. 

How is it that Brittany Ferries, DFDS, Stena and all these much bigger companies operate without this luxury. 

Surely we could have used a facility  that was more in keeping with a small local ferry operation and not gone to the expense of having the most opulent ferry facilities in the Western world. 

 

[John Wright]

33 minutes ago, emesde said:

The project looks lovely, as it should for the cost. Unfortunately it will be seen as the Liverpool departure terminal and little will be seen as input from  the Isle of Man. 

It made me think about other uk terminals I have used.           Plymouth, Poole, Portsmouth Dover, Harwich, Hull, Newcastle. 

Not one of them comes near to what is planned for Liverpool. 

How is it that Brittany Ferries, DFDS, Stena and all these much bigger companies operate without this luxury. 

Surely we could have used a facility  that was more in keeping with a small local ferry operation and not gone to the expense of having the most opulent ferry facilities in the Western world. 

 

 

Perhaps it’s been a while. I’ve posted Portsmouth and Birkenhead below.

Agree lots of the ones you name are pretty dire.

Maybe the big difference is we get lots of foot passengers, still, through Liverpool.

It needed a couple car check in desk/cabins, car marshalling area, the link span, luggage facilities, an undercover enclosed shelter with passenger and luggage scanning and ticket desk/passenger check in. WC facilities and some vending machines.

Of course, the majority of the cost isn’t the steel frame, glass, box, they’re quite cheap, it’s the work on the harbour/dock/river walls, the work on the actual quay and the link span. 

But, with anything like that it’s the maintenance, running costs, staffing, going forward, that’ll be the killer.

 

[emesde]

You are correct John,used to use Portsmouth regularly but not in last few years as mainly used Plymouth or Dover

However I just googled for info about Portsmouth to get an idea of usage.

"Passengers: Between 2.5 and 2.7 million each year travelling in approximately 900,000 cars. Freight: 205,400 units transported annually, . Twelve ships operating services that connect France, the United Kingdom, Ireland and Spain.4 Dec 2020" 

Much easier to justify this expenditure if we had 2.5 million passengers pa🤣

[John Wright]

8 minutes ago, emesde said:

You are correct John,used to use Portsmouth regularly but not in last few years as mainly used Plymouth or Dover

However I just googled for info about Portsmouth to get an idea of usage.

"Passengers: Between 2.5 and 2.7 million each year travelling in approximately 900,000 cars. Freight: 205,400 units transported annually, . Twelve ships operating services that connect France, the United Kingdom, Ireland and Spain.4 Dec 2020" 

Much easier to justify this expenditure if we had 2.5 million passengers pa🤣

Freight drivers don’t have access. It’s huge. Shops, cafes, ticket and check in for several ferry companies, a customs office. 

The point I was making was that it’s the groundwork’s and infrastructure apart from the building that cost.

And, if it’s being used several times each day, that’s different to 10 times a week for 30 weeks and once a week for 22.

Even Heysham has improved. And if you’re sat in your car you don’t always seek what foot passengers get.

The worst I’ve ever been to is definitely Cork Ringaskiddy.

Only reason I use terminal facilities is the accessible loos if I arrive early or the sailing is delayed.

[Passing Time]

26 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Perhaps it’s been a while. I’ve posted Portsmouth and Birkenhead below.

Agree lots of the ones you name are pretty dire.

Maybe the big difference is we get lots of foot passengers, still, through Liverpool.

It needed a couple car check in desk/cabins, car marshalling area, the link span, luggage facilities, an undercover enclosed shelter with passenger and luggage scanning and ticket desk/passenger check in. WC facilities and some vending machines.

Of course, the majority of the cost isn’t the steel frame, glass, box, they’re quite cheap, it’s the work on the harbour/dock/river walls, the work on the actual quay and the link span. 

But, with anything like that it’s the maintenance, running costs, staffing, going forward, that’ll be the killer.

 

 

 

Not to mention those brown envelopes...

[Omobono]

there are rumours abound that the Liverpool terminal is going to top the £100 million mark , costs are still rising and there appears to be no one on the job looking out for the interests of the Manx Taxpayer  apparently  the project has become a money pit ,  its very hard to imagine how Tynwald will ever justify the cost , let alone the restricted usage  and the  fact that there will be no freight carried through the facility , 

 

[John Wright]

3 minutes ago, Omobono said:

there are rumours abound that the Liverpool terminal is going to top the £100 million mark , costs are still rising and there appears to be no one on the job looking out for the interests of the Manx Taxpayer  apparently  the project has become a money pit ,  its very hard to imagine how Tynwald will ever justify the cost , let alone the restricted usage  and the  fact that there will be no freight carried through the facility , 

 

Limited container/trailer freight is allowed if Heysham is closed, emergencies, etc. There’s an annual maximum usage.

However lots of freight still comes over by white van man operators.

Container/trailer freight has never used the current Liverpool pier head facilities, or their two predecessors, that I’ve known and used.

 

[asitis]

When we are in so much trouble with other frontline services, this money pit really is a scandal !

 If 3.5 million to over 100 million makes any sense to anyone I'll eat my hat.

If it made a sound business case at 3.5 million or even 20 million, how in hell can the same business case still be sound at over 100 million ! An independent enquiry needs to be set up to find out how we got here, and why someone didn't rein this in and at least review the business case at an earlier stage. If nothing else this is incompetence on a spectacular level !

[Two-lane]

21 minutes ago, asitis said:

If nothing else this is incompetence on a spectacular level !

I do not follow the local press, so I am a bit uninformed about things.

How many MHKs have criticised this project?

How many MHKs are asking for an inquiry?

[finlo]

8 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

I do not follow the local press, so I am a bit uninformed about things.

How many MHKs have criticised this project?

How many MHKs are asking for an inquiry?

None that I've heard of!

[thommo2010]

A 50/60k football stadium is being built down the road for 500 million. For 100 million will be interesting to see what it actually buys

[2112]

3 minutes ago, thommo2010 said:

A 50/60k football stadium is being built down the road for 500 million. For 100 million will be interesting to see what it actually buys

A shiny brand new shed, and some land, of which the island will not own outright (long lease). 

[emesde]

10 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

I do not follow the local press, so I am a bit uninformed about things.

How many MHKs have criticised this project?

How many MHKs are asking for an inquiry?

For goodness sake, get a grip,. 

It's fun spending money especially when the amounts  concerned are bigger than international  phone numbers. There will be trips for the opening (sometime in the next year or two) . There will be photo opportunities with the rulers of Liverpool and a chance to extole the close links between the two cities. 

And it won't cost them a penny.       🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Two-lane]

8 minutes ago, finlo said:

None that I've heard of!

I therefore believe that is where the *real* problem lies.

You can ask for an inquiry, but the ultimate problem lies in the lack of competence (or morality) of the MHKs.

 

[2112]

2 minutes ago, emesde said:

For goodness sake, get a grip,. 

It's fun spending money especially when the amounts  concerned are bigger than international  phone numbers. There will be trips for the opening (sometime in the next year or two) . There will be photo opportunities with the rulers of Liverpool and a chance to extole the close links between the two cities. 

And it won't cost them a penny.       🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Won’t cost Liverpools rulers a penny, but it will certainly cost the GMT. I’m sure the dignitaries will get the best of IOMG Catering, some soggy sandwiches, Mr Kiplings, and a free run of the new vending machines.