Taxpayers to dig for £20M for Liverpool Dock

[John Wright]

It’s the way the system is coupled up that is bespoke. All the components are standard.

the Diesel engines are Wärtsilä 31 engine, recognised as the world’s most efficient 4-stroke diesel engine,  and an engine that can also use artificial intelligence (AI) and machine learning in a condition-based maintenance regime. They’re widely used and very reliable.

These are driving 4 low voltage generators, 2 x 6,808 kVA and 2 x 5,287 kVA, which drive the two Monoblock type 8 MW main propulsion electric motors and 3 vertical 1.2 MW thruster electrical motors. These are Alconza, and again reliable and widely used units.

Spares for both are readily available.

The bespoke element is how it’s put together.  Alconza say:

The main feature of the electric propulsion motors that Alconza will install in the new ferry is its “Monoblock” design, where two entirely independent stators, as well as their corresponding squirrel cages, are incorporated in the same housing, offering a great redundancy.

Whatever that means. I can’t see a conventional gear box being involved. There may be step down gearing between the diesel motor rotary output and the generating set.

They supplied the electric propulsion units for the RRS Sir David Attenborough. They say

The absence of a gearbox between the motors and the propulsion line makes the system more reliable and silent, as well as more economical from a maintenance point of view.

[The Phantom]

1 minute ago, John Wright said:

 

The main feature of the electric propulsion motors that Alconza will install in the new ferry is its “Monoblock” design, where two entirely independent stators, as well as their corresponding squirrel cages, are incorporated in the same housing, offering a great redundancy.

 

Red or Grey Squirrel cages? 

[John Wright]

3 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

Red or Grey Squirrel cages? 

Flying, by the sound of it!

[Happier diner]

10 minutes ago, John Wright said:

It’s the way the system is coupled up that is bespoke. All the components are standard.

the Diesel engines are Wärtsilä 31 engine, recognised as the world’s most efficient 4-stroke diesel engine,  and an engine that can also use artificial intelligence (AI) and machine learning in a condition-based maintenance regime. They’re widely used and very reliable.

These are driving 4 low voltage generators, 2 x 6,808 kVA and 2 x 5,287 kVA, which drive the two Monoblock type 8 MW main propulsion electric motors and 3 vertical 1.2 MW thruster electrical motors. These are Alconza, and again reliable and widely used units.

Spares for both are readily available.

The bespoke element is how it’s put together.  Alconza say:

The main feature of the electric propulsion motors that Alconza will install in the new ferry is its “Monoblock” design, where two entirely independent stators, as well as their corresponding squirrel cages, are incorporated in the same housing, offering a great redundancy.

Whatever that means. I can’t see a conventional gear box being involved. There may be step down gearing between the diesel motor rotary output and the generating set.

They supplied the electric propulsion units for the RSS David Attenborough. They say

The absence of a gearbox between the motors and the propulsion line makes the system more reliable and silent, as well as more economical from a maintenance point of view.

If its diesel electric then the diesel will generally run at a fixed speed and an electric motor never has a gearbox as it can run efficiently at pretty much any speed (up to a limit of course)

Hardly new technology though. U boats in the first world war were propelled this way

You don't normally need to change gears at sea anyway as the propeller (screw) speed is not the same as the travelling speed like it is with a wheel.

Sorry if I am stating the bleedin obvious

I thought pretty much all electric motors were squirrel cage

 

[John Wright]

2 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

If its diesel electric then the diesel will generally run at a fixed speed and an electric motor never has a gearbox as it can run efficiently at pretty much any speed (up to a limit of course)

Hardly new technology though. U boats in the first world war were propelled this way

You don't normally need to change gears at sea anyway as the propeller (screw) speed is not the same as the travelling speed like it is with a wheel.

Sorry if I am stating the bleedin obvious

I thought pretty much all electric motors were squirrel cage

 

Hence, as I said a few pages back the gear box story sound unlikely. I’ve been told it’s the bearings.

 

[TheTeapot]

maybe they let IL have a go on the trial

[TheTeapot]

Has that joke already been made? Sorry if so

[Happier diner]

2 hours ago, John Wright said:

Hence, as I said a few pages back the gear box story sound unlikely. I’ve been told it’s the bearings.

 

Yes. I was agreeing with you. Albeit, perhaps a little clumsily. 

[Happier diner]

2 hours ago, Happier diner said:

If its diesel electric then the diesel will generally run at a fixed speed and an electric motor never has a gearbox as it can run efficiently at pretty much any speed (up to a limit of course)

Hardly new technology though. U boats in the first world war were propelled this way

You don't normally need to change gears at sea anyway as the propeller (screw) speed is not the same as the travelling speed like it is with a wheel.

Sorry if I am stating the bleedin obvious

I thought pretty much all electric motors were squirrel cage

 

Thinking about it. The gearbox has to be able to run forward and then reverse. 

[doc.fixit]

Just reverse the motor, simples.

[John Wright]

20 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Thinking about it. The gearbox has to be able to run forward and then reverse. 

No, just the electric propulsion unit. That doesn’t require gears.

[Roger Mexico]

7 hours ago, John Wright said:

Hence, as I said a few pages back the gear box story sound unlikely. I’ve been told it’s the bearings.

The only trouble with this unlikely story is that comes straight from the mouth of the Managing Director, Brian Thomson, who says in the sound clip that "The gearbox has failed" and that "Everything, pretty much, on the Manxman is bespoke".  He also claimed that it's going to be completely replaced.

Some thought at the time that putting a marine surveyor with little commercial experience in charge of a commercial shipping company was a rather odd decision, even though, as a Manx civil servant, all his decisions will be ex officio infallible (the Pope must be so jealous).  But you would assume with his background that he would at least know how ships work.

[Gladys]

4 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

The only trouble with this unlikely story is that comes straight from the mouth of the Managing Director, Brian Thomson, who says in the sound clip that "The gearbox has failed" and that "Everything, pretty much, on the Manxman is bespoke".  He also claimed that it's going to be completely replaced.

Some thought at the time that putting a marine surveyor with little commercial experience in charge of a commercial shipping company was a rather odd decision, even though, as a Manx civil servant, all his decisions will be ex officio infallible (the Pope must be so jealous).  But you would assume with his background that he would at least know how ships work.

Always thought the ship registry had a good reputation.  

Edited February 2, 2023 by Gladys

[John Wright]

6 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

The only trouble with this unlikely story is that comes straight from the mouth of the Managing Director, Brian Thomson, who says in the sound clip that "The gearbox has failed" and that "Everything, pretty much, on the Manxman is bespoke".  He also claimed that it's going to be completely replaced.

Some thought at the time that putting a marine surveyor with little commercial experience in charge of a commercial shipping company was a rather odd decision, even though, as a Manx civil servant, all his decisions will be ex officio infallible (the Pope must be so jealous).  But you would assume with his background that he would at least know how ships work.

In the Independent he’s quoted as saying that it’s the “compulsion unit” that has the problem.

[Hoops]

7 minutes ago, John Wright said:

In the Independent he’s quoted as saying that it’s the “compulsion unit” that has the problem.

God, that sounds like something the CCP would tell journalists as they round up non-compliant villagers for some re-education.