Taxpayers to dig for £20M for Liverpool Dock

[Kopek]

I never expected it to come in on budget, So..........

100 million, that's still within budget???

[CallMeCurious]

On 2/4/2023 at 9:00 PM, Omobono said:

thats why the manxman should have been constructed   to full Solas 3 requirements  just wait until bad weather forecast and her passenger carrying capacity is almost halved , or she cant sail  due to predicted wave height , 

time we were getting some answers from Mr Thomas  

Wonder who will get kicked off the boat first then*? I can see it now.... SP ask every one to turn up on time and then you get turned back at the gate or ramp if you've not paid for a 'premium' ticket. Or will you only take cars with one passenger and turn away those with 5? What if this happens two or three days in a row, how does that work? Or draw straws? Rock, paper, scissors. 

I'd like to see the order of priority they have planned for this inevitable circumstance. 

On the plus side if anything goes wrong mid channel you'll be able to paddle over to the nearest wind turbine for a bit of shelter.... pity no helicopter will be able to get near for the rescue. Especially at night or in poor visbility.

*Bet it won't be any MHK's thats for sure.

 

 

 

 

[Gladys]

23 minutes ago, Max Power said:

I didn’t say it caused the decline but I’m convinced that it contributed to it.

You really have to want to come to the island now, the thought of trudging to Heysham puts me off, and I live here!

I’m not sticking up for the current terminal fiasco, but Heysham reflects all of our ambition and achievements, crappy!

I think anyone contemplating a boat journey to get to their destination really wants to get there anyway.   Heysham docks  are more easily accessed than Liverpool docks now. It may be a bit further up the motorway, but that is insignificant when people are used to travelling further than between Douglas and Peel.  I used to  travel between South London and Cardiff and back in a day every couple of months, no big shakes.  It is what you do. 

The idea that a Liverpool sea connection is vital is just not borne out with any kind of critical analysis. 

It certainly is nice to have, but not vital because we can still fly there, and vice versa.  Yet that kind of nostalgic need for a direct link underpinned the (flawed) decision to proceed with this clusterfuck at a huge cost and impact on who knows what actually vital services? 

If you want to go to see the footie, shop, go to a concert, have any other kind of break in Liverpool, fly.  Simples. 

[CallMeCurious]

11 minutes ago, Gladys said:

I think anyone contemplating a boat journey to get to their destination really wants to get there anyway.   Heysham docks  are more easily accessed than Liverpool docks now. It may be a bit further up the motorway, but that is insignificant when people are used to travelling further than between Douglas and Peel.  I used to  travel between South London and Cardiff and back in a day every couple of months, no big shakes.  It is what you do. 

The idea that a Liverpool sea connection is vital is just not borne out with any kind of critical analysis. 

It certainly is nice to have, but not vital because we can still fly there, and vice versa.  Yet that kind of nostalgic need for a direct link underpinned the (flawed) decision to proceed with this clusterfuck at a huge cost and impact on who knows what actually vital services? 

If you want to go to see the footie, shop, go to a concert, have any other kind of break in Liverpool, fly.  Simples. 

Gosh imagine if there was a good public transport link between Heysham and Liverpool City Centre, say a train. Then you could have the best of both worlds. Make it easier for foot passengers both ways.

Sadly we have this... 1 or 2 changes on 70 mile journey taking between 2 to 2 1/2 hours. Almost as slow as the ferry. 7 1/2 by ferry, 4-5 hours by train... not very conducive for day trippers.

[Gladys]

9 minutes ago, CallMeCurious said:

Gosh imagine if there was a good public transport link between Heysham and Liverpool City Centre, say a train. Then you could have the best of both worlds. Make it easier for foot passengers both ways.

Sadly we have this... 1 or 2 changes on 70 mile journey taking between 2 to 2 1/2 hours. Almost as slow as the ferry. 7 1/2 by ferry, 4-5 hours by train... not very conducive for day trippers.

So what?  I mean really, if £70m + is to be spent so people can have a day trip to Liverpool, then we are really fucked. 

[Happier diner]

7 hours ago, Gladys said:

So what?  I mean really, if £70m + is to be spent so people can have a day trip to Liverpool, then we are really fucked. 

You have a point. But its irrelevant now. We were lead astray by Gawne and is £3.5M. It was then, and is now even more so, an unbelievably bad estimate of the true cost. Even then, no one with any sense at all would have thought you could have built a new landing stage for that price. Didnt the new test centre cost more than that?

We pay the price.

[ptarmigan]

Well either the MhksAre just stupid, and they aren’t (well not all of them) Or they were incredibly naive and have somehow nodded everything through when it went from 3.5 million to 30 million to 100 million. For something that’s only going to be used in summer and doesn’t take freight ….

 

or they were misled. 

[Non-Believer]

8 hours ago, Gladys said:

So what?  I mean really, if £70m + is to be spent so people can have a day trip to Liverpool, then we are really fucked. 

It's this "necessity to have access to Liverpool culture" line that I find hilarious. 

The only culture in Liverpool is that which will have helped itself to a large part of our £100M.

Maybe it's not so hilarious after all.

[GD4ELI]

Just now, Non-Believer said:

It's this "necessity to have access to Liverpool culture" line that I find hilarious. 

The only culture in Liverpool is that which will have helped itself to a large part of our £100M.

Maybe it's not so hilarious after all.

There is a great deal in Liverpool, none so blind etc.

[Gladys]

19 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

It's this "necessity to have access to Liverpool culture" line that I find hilarious. 

The only culture in Liverpool is that which will have helped itself to a large part of our £100M.

Maybe it's not so hilarious after all.

It is not so much access to Liverpool culture, (and it is a great city with plenty on offer) but the historic links the IOM has with the city that makes it part of our culture.  This is the argument that is trotted out.  We all know if anything is dressed up as part of Manx culture it is given priority. 

[GD4ELI]

3 minutes ago, Gladys said:

It is not so much access to Liverpool culture, (and it is a great city with plenty on offer) but the historic links the IOM has with the city that makes it part of our culture.  This is the argument that is trotted out.  We all know if anything is dressed up as part of Manx culture it is given priority. 

They just want to watch the football, that's the real reason.

[Non-Believer]

25 minutes ago, GD4ELI said:

There is a great deal in Liverpool, none so blind etc.

There'll be a lot more after a big lump of £100M has found its way into it...?

[cissolt]

4 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

There'll be a lot more after a big lump of £100M has found its way into it...?

Or maybe the contractor will give all Manx taxpayers a little wooden train?  They are quite generous when it comes to wooden toys

[P.K.]

11 hours ago, Max Power said:

I didn’t say it caused the decline but I’m convinced that it contributed to it.

You really have to want to come to the island now, the thought of trudging to Heysham puts me off, and I live here!

I’m not sticking up for the current terminal fiasco, but Heysham reflects all of our ambition and achievements, crappy!

For foot passengers Heysham is painful in the extreme. It's also not a short stopover's destination of choice...!

However with the M6 link it's our first option because it's stress free compared to fighting your way through the Liverpool rush hour traffic.

[P.K.]

13 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said:

They should have pulled out of this plan when it started going way past Phil Gawne's £3m estimate.

They looked at other options and decided that Half Tide dock was pretty much the only viable one. Which probably meant to the team that they had to make it work. IMHO of course.

However I do wonder how hard they looked for an alternative to Liverpool and whether or not they were properly  forewarned as to what issues they might come across eg like previously undiscovered ordnance...?