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Taxpayers to dig for £20M for Liverpool Dock


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1 hour ago, asitis said:

About as hard as they looked for an alternative provider to the SPCO ! If this whole issue is not forensically examined by a competent PCA then the IOM will continue to be others goldmine !

That's a different thing though I guess. Inviting ferry operators to tender for a service would seem a good idea. Looking for alternative cities is a bit more of a challenge. 

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14 minutes ago, Max Power said:

That’s part of the problem, who would be the shareholders of another provider?

Currently, as far as I know, the only shareholders are IoMG?

It was the shareholders of the old SPCO who clearly had lots of interests in the taxpayers paying 120 million to get the golden share. 

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1 hour ago, asitis said:

It was the shareholders of the old SPCO who clearly had lots of interests in the taxpayers paying 120 million to get the golden share. 

 

1 hour ago, Max Power said:

The only shareholder was the Portuguese bank which inherited it from McQuarrie Bank in Australia. 

Since 1987  there have only been 4 shareholders, each in turn owning 100% of the shares.

Seacontainers

McQuarrie

Banco Spirito Santos

IoMG

The one that made the initial killing was McQuarrie. They then asset stripped borrowed and defaulted. That's how BSS came to own the shares. It foreclosed. It didn't get £120 million. Even if it did that didn't cover its loan exposure.

 

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22 hours ago, Gladys said:

So what?  I mean really, if £70m + is to be spent so people can have a day trip to Liverpool, then we are really fucked. 

No it’s much more than a day trip. It can be a weekend or longer .A destination in its own right, closer to  the place where people really want to go Where you can go to museums, shows, the Tate  etc and God forbid, yes the football. Not really what you can say of Heysham.

There are also a lot off familial connections between the Island and Liverpool. That’s not dressing it up as Manx culture. It’s not  some god forsaken place in the arse  end of nowhere. Yes you can fly to Liverpool but the ferry  journey in itself can be an enjoyable experience as ferry experiences can be all over the world. Have you ever used or heard the words “ it’s part of the holiday”?

What would leave us really fucked is if Heysham became the only option.
 

I’ve nothing against Heysham per se as a port to sail to/ from but if that was the sole sailing option to/ from the Island it would send out all the wrong signals and totally destroy the remains of the tourist industry we have left

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9 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

No it’s much more than a day trip. It can be a weekend or longer .A destination in its own right, closer to  the place where people really want to go Where you can go to museums, shows, the Tate  etc and God forbid, yes the football. Not really what you can say of Heysham.

There are also a lot off familial connections between the Island and Liverpool. That’s not dressing it up as Manx culture. It’s not  some god forsaken place in the arse  end of nowhere. Yes you can fly to Liverpool but the ferry  journey in itself can be an enjoyable experience as ferry experiences can be all over the world. Have you ever used or heard the words “ it’s part of the holiday”?

What would leave us really fucked is if Heysham became the only option.
 

I’ve nothing against Heysham per se as a port to sail to/ from but if that was the sole sailing option to/ from the Island it would send out all the wrong signals and totally destroy the remains of the tourist industry we have left

Look at the post I was replying to. 

Completely agree, Liverpool is a great city and I have had quite a few breaks there too and enjoyed them.  But £70m to secure sailling there?  Really? 

Not two times over initial indications, 10 times or even 15 times, 20 f*cking times and no doubt climbing. 

Yet, the arguments are vacillating between a service to the poor buggers demanding/paying for it, or it is to secure a dwindling tourist sector. 

Make your mind up, on either assessment it is as far away from VFM  as you can possibly get. 

It is like the arguments to spend countless millions on the airport, justified by the many tourists who will come.  No one visits the island for the airport or a ferry terminal. Think of what that money could have built here to attract tourists, even if just supporting tourist accommodation to a modern standard.  Or to improve facilities here for people to want to relocate. 

No, a complete and unholy waste of money.

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10 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

And yet when someone tackled Cannan about this at that Government Conference, he could do little to justify it, or even explain the ever-expanding cost, except babble about consultations having shown that people wanted to go to Liverpool.  

I wonder how many folks would still want to go to Liverpool if they knew how much it would really cost them...?

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3 minutes ago, P.K. said:

I wonder how many folks would still want to go to Liverpool if they knew how much it would really cost them...?

What we need is a referendum, For and Against.

Those For can have their taxes hiked accordingly to contribute towards it.

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7 hours ago, John Wright said:

 

Since 1987  there have only been 4 shareholders, each in turn owning 100% of the shares.

Seacontainers

McQuarrie

Banco Spirito Santos

IoMG

The one that made the initial killing was McQuarrie. They then asset stripped borrowed and defaulted. That's how BSS came to own the shares. It foreclosed. It didn't get £120 million. Even if it did that didn't cover its loan exposure.

 

Montagu private equity bought the packet from sea containers 2003 for a reported £150 million then flipped it for £225 million to McQuarrie in 2005 so maybe we got it for a song

Edited by lowell thurber
Fat fingers
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29 minutes ago, lowell thurber said:

Montagu private equity bought the packet from sea containers 2003 for a reported £150 million then flipped it for £225 million to McQuarrie in 2005 so maybe we got it for a song

I don't think so , the value of the assets ,the Ben and the Sea cat were probably worth £25 to £30 million  at most   the isle of man government own the buildings and offices in Douglas ,   without the user agreement  which Government  own  there was literally no business , in my opinion Government paid way over the odds for the packet , and went against professional  advice regarding a valuation of the assets  together with any good will ,  there was talk of  a new building fund  that the packet was said to have  stashed away ,and given the   business ability of the former board  rumoured capable  of making £24 million profit each year  they were excellent  ship managers   , and yet  we finished up with a pup ,

so government got off to a very expensive start , and has steadily racked up major costs  for a new ship , liverpool  facility and all the  extensive work required in Douglas harbour , a very expensive ego trip that the island will pay very dearly for for many years to come   and we still dont have a final cost for any of it !

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8 hours ago, lowell thurber said:

Montagu private equity bought the packet from sea containers 2003 for a reported £150 million then flipped it for £225 million to McQuarrie in 2005 so maybe we got it for a song

But then we’ve just paid £78M for a new ferry and £100M for a new port terminal which totally eclipses everything ever spent. 

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13 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said:

But then we’ve just paid £78M for a new ferry and £100M for a new port terminal which totally eclipses everything ever spent. 

A new ferry was needed anyway, whether a terminal was is very debatable.

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