GD4ELI Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 12 minutes ago, Max Power said: I think there were plenty of reasons to discount other providers, actually a case of lessons were learnt for once! Very true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 1 hour ago, asitis said: About as hard as they looked for an alternative provider to the SPCO ! If this whole issue is not forensically examined by a competent PCA then the IOM will continue to be others goldmine ! That's a different thing though I guess. Inviting ferry operators to tender for a service would seem a good idea. Looking for alternative cities is a bit more of a challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 1 hour ago, Max Power said: think there were plenty of reasons to discount other providers Yes they were called shareholders ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 11 minutes ago, asitis said: Yes they were called shareholders ! That’s part of the problem, who would be the shareholders of another provider? Currently, as far as I know, the only shareholders are IoMG? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 14 minutes ago, Max Power said: That’s part of the problem, who would be the shareholders of another provider? Currently, as far as I know, the only shareholders are IoMG? It was the shareholders of the old SPCO who clearly had lots of interests in the taxpayers paying 120 million to get the golden share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 17 minutes ago, asitis said: It was the shareholders of the old SPCO who clearly had lots of interests in the taxpayers paying 120 million to get the golden share. The only shareholder was the Portuguese bank which inherited it from McQuarrie Bank in Australia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 1 hour ago, asitis said: It was the shareholders of the old SPCO who clearly had lots of interests in the taxpayers paying 120 million to get the golden share. 1 hour ago, Max Power said: The only shareholder was the Portuguese bank which inherited it from McQuarrie Bank in Australia. Since 1987 there have only been 4 shareholders, each in turn owning 100% of the shares. Seacontainers McQuarrie Banco Spirito Santos IoMG The one that made the initial killing was McQuarrie. They then asset stripped borrowed and defaulted. That's how BSS came to own the shares. It foreclosed. It didn't get £120 million. Even if it did that didn't cover its loan exposure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 22 hours ago, Gladys said: So what? I mean really, if £70m + is to be spent so people can have a day trip to Liverpool, then we are really fucked. No it’s much more than a day trip. It can be a weekend or longer .A destination in its own right, closer to the place where people really want to go Where you can go to museums, shows, the Tate etc and God forbid, yes the football. Not really what you can say of Heysham. There are also a lot off familial connections between the Island and Liverpool. That’s not dressing it up as Manx culture. It’s not some god forsaken place in the arse end of nowhere. Yes you can fly to Liverpool but the ferry journey in itself can be an enjoyable experience as ferry experiences can be all over the world. Have you ever used or heard the words “ it’s part of the holiday”? What would leave us really fucked is if Heysham became the only option. I’ve nothing against Heysham per se as a port to sail to/ from but if that was the sole sailing option to/ from the Island it would send out all the wrong signals and totally destroy the remains of the tourist industry we have left 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 9 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: No it’s much more than a day trip. It can be a weekend or longer .A destination in its own right, closer to the place where people really want to go Where you can go to museums, shows, the Tate etc and God forbid, yes the football. Not really what you can say of Heysham. There are also a lot off familial connections between the Island and Liverpool. That’s not dressing it up as Manx culture. It’s not some god forsaken place in the arse end of nowhere. Yes you can fly to Liverpool but the ferry journey in itself can be an enjoyable experience as ferry experiences can be all over the world. Have you ever used or heard the words “ it’s part of the holiday”? What would leave us really fucked is if Heysham became the only option. I’ve nothing against Heysham per se as a port to sail to/ from but if that was the sole sailing option to/ from the Island it would send out all the wrong signals and totally destroy the remains of the tourist industry we have left Look at the post I was replying to. Completely agree, Liverpool is a great city and I have had quite a few breaks there too and enjoyed them. But £70m to secure sailling there? Really? Not two times over initial indications, 10 times or even 15 times, 20 f*cking times and no doubt climbing. Yet, the arguments are vacillating between a service to the poor buggers demanding/paying for it, or it is to secure a dwindling tourist sector. Make your mind up, on either assessment it is as far away from VFM as you can possibly get. It is like the arguments to spend countless millions on the airport, justified by the many tourists who will come. No one visits the island for the airport or a ferry terminal. Think of what that money could have built here to attract tourists, even if just supporting tourist accommodation to a modern standard. Or to improve facilities here for people to want to relocate. No, a complete and unholy waste of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 10 hours ago, Roger Mexico said: And yet when someone tackled Cannan about this at that Government Conference, he could do little to justify it, or even explain the ever-expanding cost, except babble about consultations having shown that people wanted to go to Liverpool. I wonder how many folks would still want to go to Liverpool if they knew how much it would really cost them...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted February 6, 2023 Author Share Posted February 6, 2023 3 minutes ago, P.K. said: I wonder how many folks would still want to go to Liverpool if they knew how much it would really cost them...? What we need is a referendum, For and Against. Those For can have their taxes hiked accordingly to contribute towards it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowell thurber Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, John Wright said: Since 1987 there have only been 4 shareholders, each in turn owning 100% of the shares. Seacontainers McQuarrie Banco Spirito Santos IoMG The one that made the initial killing was McQuarrie. They then asset stripped borrowed and defaulted. That's how BSS came to own the shares. It foreclosed. It didn't get £120 million. Even if it did that didn't cover its loan exposure. Montagu private equity bought the packet from sea containers 2003 for a reported £150 million then flipped it for £225 million to McQuarrie in 2005 so maybe we got it for a song Edited February 6, 2023 by lowell thurber Fat fingers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omobono Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 29 minutes ago, lowell thurber said: Montagu private equity bought the packet from sea containers 2003 for a reported £150 million then flipped it for £225 million to McQuarrie in 2005 so maybe we got it for a song I don't think so , the value of the assets ,the Ben and the Sea cat were probably worth £25 to £30 million at most the isle of man government own the buildings and offices in Douglas , without the user agreement which Government own there was literally no business , in my opinion Government paid way over the odds for the packet , and went against professional advice regarding a valuation of the assets together with any good will , there was talk of a new building fund that the packet was said to have stashed away ,and given the business ability of the former board rumoured capable of making £24 million profit each year they were excellent ship managers , and yet we finished up with a pup , so government got off to a very expensive start , and has steadily racked up major costs for a new ship , liverpool facility and all the extensive work required in Douglas harbour , a very expensive ego trip that the island will pay very dearly for for many years to come and we still dont have a final cost for any of it ! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshoremanxman Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 8 hours ago, lowell thurber said: Montagu private equity bought the packet from sea containers 2003 for a reported £150 million then flipped it for £225 million to McQuarrie in 2005 so maybe we got it for a song But then we’ve just paid £78M for a new ferry and £100M for a new port terminal which totally eclipses everything ever spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD4ELI Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 13 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: But then we’ve just paid £78M for a new ferry and £100M for a new port terminal which totally eclipses everything ever spent. A new ferry was needed anyway, whether a terminal was is very debatable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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