Taxpayers to dig for £20M for Liverpool Dock

[Dirty Buggane]

Of course their were penalties, promotion to a better paid job and pension at a fortuitous time so as to be able to say. Not me gov, I'm in a different department now.

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, code99 said:

I agree. I am sick and tired of hearing that politicians have no say in anything, and of their 'lessons will be learned'. If they can’t do any better, why don’t we just hand the administration of the Island over to a bunch of nameless technocrats/ bureaucrats…just kidding. Personally, I hope that such an investigation would shed some light not only on the Liverpool ferry terminal project, but also on how the Island’s other large capital projects are executed. The Prom is another project that expanded endlessly, both in terms of duration and money (even now there are no estimates of what the final cost of the project will be).

This investigation needs to look at everything from the conception of the idea all the way through to completion/delivery of the project. E.g., were the risks of things going wrong considered in the original plan? Were contingency plans created, or were things simply allowed to stumble from one ‘unforeseeable set-back’ to the next? The public needs to understand what caused the project(s) to get out of control, what the critical pressure points were and who was accountable for what. We need to know if there were penalties for poor performance, etc, etc.

FOI? 

[Two-lane]

4 hours ago, Gladys said:

https://www.gov.im/about-the-government/council-of-ministers/the-council-of-ministers/

This has a link to the Ministerial Code. 

Thank you, Gladys. It brought back memories of having to read Far From The Madding Crowd for 'O' level English Language. Never read a book since.

With respect to the comment "because duty protocol obliges him to defend his Department.", I did not find anything relevant.

The closest I got is:

"Each Minister is responsible to the Chief Minister, and Tynwald, for the conduct of his
or her Department and for the actions carried out by the Department in pursuit of
Government policies or in the discharge of responsibilities laid upon him or her as a
Minister. Ministers are accountable to Tynwald in the sense that they have a duty to
explain in Tynwald the exercise of their powers and duties and to give an account to
Tynwald of what is done by them in their capacity as Ministers or by their
Departments. "

and

"4.29 The individual civil servant is accountable through his or her senior officers to his or
her Minister and, if he or she has done amiss, it is to his or her Minister and
ultimately the Public Services Commission that he or she is answerable. There are
established means available, e.g. internal inquiry and disciplinary proceedings,
whereby the Head of a Department or the Public Services Commission can bring an
individual civil servant to account and can penalise him or her if necessary"

And this bit, of course:

"Holders of public office should act solely in terms of the public interest."

[Gladys]

20 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

Thank you, Gladys. It brought back memories of having to read Far From The Madding Crowd for 'O' level English Language. Never read a book since.

With respect to the comment "because duty protocol obliges him to defend his Department.", I did not find anything relevant.

The closest I got is:

"Each Minister is responsible to the Chief Minister, and Tynwald, for the conduct of his
or her Department and for the actions carried out by the Department in pursuit of
Government policies or in the discharge of responsibilities laid upon him or her as a
Minister. Ministers are accountable to Tynwald in the sense that they have a duty to
explain in Tynwald the exercise of their powers and duties and to give an account to
Tynwald of what is done by them in their capacity as Ministers or by their
Departments. "

and

"4.29 The individual civil servant is accountable through his or her senior officers to his or
her Minister and, if he or she has done amiss, it is to his or her Minister and
ultimately the Public Services Commission that he or she is answerable. There are
established means available, e.g. internal inquiry and disciplinary proceedings,
whereby the Head of a Department or the Public Services Commission can bring an
individual civil servant to account and can penalise him or her if necessary"

And this bit, of course:

"Holders of public office should act solely in terms of the public interest."

It kind of comes down to the department is the Minister and the Minister is the department.  Whether that requires you to defend the department, or enquire as to how those to whom you have delegated certain powers and responsibility, exercise those powers and responsibilities. 

In other scenarios, you can delegate authority but not responsibility. 

[code99]

1 hour ago, Two-lane said:

Thank you, Gladys. It brought back memories of having to read Far From The Madding Crowd for 'O' level English Language. Never read a book since.

With respect to the comment "because duty protocol obliges him to defend his Department.", I did not find anything relevant.

The closest I got is:

"Each Minister is responsible to the Chief Minister, and Tynwald, for the conduct of his
or her Department and for the actions carried out by the Department in pursuit of
Government policies or in the discharge of responsibilities laid upon him or her as a
Minister. Ministers are accountable to Tynwald in the sense that they have a duty to
explain in Tynwald the exercise of their powers and duties and to give an account to
Tynwald of what is done by them in their capacity as Ministers or by their
Departments. "

and

"4.29 The individual civil servant is accountable through his or her senior officers to his or
her Minister and, if he or she has done amiss, it is to his or her Minister and
ultimately the Public Services Commission that he or she is answerable. There are
established means available, e.g. internal inquiry and disciplinary proceedings,
whereby the Head of a Department or the Public Services Commission can bring an
individual civil servant to account and can penalise him or her if necessary"

And this bit, of course:

"Holders of public office should act solely in terms of the public interest."

Thanks for posting.

It seems to me that our Ministers may not be aware of this 'Code of Conduct', because they do not seem to be living by it. E.g., "Each Minister is responsible to the Chief Minister, and Tynwald, for the conduct of his or her Department..." - this requirement was clearly not adopted by David Ashford when his Department tormented Dr Ranson. 

[newaccount]

Another £10m

[Numbnuts]

10 minutes ago, newaccount said:

Another £10m

And counting. How the hell are original figures so far out. Serious incompetence gone on with this project. It was to be under 10 million originally according to Phil Gawne . What part has treasury played in this. Clearly none !! As always tax payers will pick up the slack while CS and associates laugh . 

[De nada]

15 minutes ago, newaccount said:

Another £10m

Just say no...

(& see what happens)

[Happier diner]

7 minutes ago, De nada said:

Just say no...

(& see what happens)

You would be sued for breach of contract

[Nellie]

23 minutes ago, newaccount said:

Another £10m

The title of this thread didn't age particularly well. 😏

[John Wright]

Of course there’s no money to employ anyone or turn on the lights or operate the linkspan. So they’ll have to rent it to the Steam Packet. 5% commercial return ( arms length, remember ). £4million a year plus bills.

[offshoremanxman]

35 minutes ago, newaccount said:

Another £10m

Yes last session of Tynwald as usual and they can sign it off and bugger off for recess

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/additional-10m-in-contingency-sought-for-new-ferry-terminal-project/

[Numbnuts]

11 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said:

Yes last session of Tynwald as usual and they can sign it off and bugger off for recess

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/additional-10m-in-contingency-sought-for-new-ferry-terminal-project/

Yes , you’d think they planned it..ohh wait

And back to the increased cost of the boat that only can go there 6 months of the year I believe. 

[Two-lane]

"Funding for a new £3.5m Isle of Man ferry terminal in Liverpool has been approved by the Manx parliament.

The existing facility at the Pier Head landing stage is "nearing the end of its operational life", an infrastructure spokesman said."

Ah, those were the days.

 

 

[CallMeCurious]

7 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said:

Yes last session of Tynwald as usual and they can sign it off and bugger off for recess

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/additional-10m-in-contingency-sought-for-new-ferry-terminal-project/

Any money not spent will be returned to general reserves.

Ever the optomist eh?

The fact that you need even more money at this late stage of the project means there have been even more monumental fuck-ups that they couldn't hide and now have to do something about them.

Nothing ever changes.