Kopek Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 It would be wrong to expect any 'inquiry' into the Liverpool fiasco, it would be foolish to expect any MHK or CS to be held to account for this situation? Why do you think that there have been so many DoI ministers? So many CS who have already left??? We just have to wait for the final figure and act in any which way we can. Vote out who? Crookall? Was it his fault? Any of the other MHKs in charge? Or the whole lot of them> Not likely to happen. The last thing we need is... 'lessons have been learned'.... MHKs should demonstrate that this is so with some castigations that have been so missing in our administrations!!! So, it's the last few CMs that should pay the price??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 6 hours ago, Kopek said: It would be wrong to expect any 'inquiry' into the Liverpool fiasco, it would be foolish to expect any MHK or CS to be held to account for this situation? Why do you think that there have been so many DoI ministers? So many CS who have already left??? We just have to wait for the final figure and act in any which way we can. Vote out who? Crookall? Was it his fault? Any of the other MHKs in charge? Or the whole lot of them> Not likely to happen. The last thing we need is... 'lessons have been learned'.... MHKs should demonstrate that this is so with some castigations that have been so missing in our administrations!!! So, it's the last few CMs that should pay the price??? Sadly the same platitudes will be trotted out, the ongoing running costs will mean Government have done to the steamy exactly what others have done i.e. surrounded it with debt. What looked to be a sound business move in the acquisition of the business (although imo we paid far too much for it), now looks to be less of a money spinner and more of a millstone. In truth the taxpayer will be paying for these fiascos in all manner of ways, through goods, travel and a paucity of services elsewhere. Another depressing and unsavoury episode in the inept governance and administration of our home ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 7 hours ago, Kopek said: It would be wrong to expect any 'inquiry' into the Liverpool fiasco, it would be foolish to expect any MHK or CS to be held to account for this situation? Why do you think that there have been so many DoI ministers? So many CS who have already left??? We just have to wait for the final figure and act in any which way we can. Vote out who? Crookall? Was it his fault? Any of the other MHKs in charge? Or the whole lot of them> Not likely to happen. The last thing we need is... 'lessons have been learned'.... MHKs should demonstrate that this is so with some castigations that have been so missing in our administrations!!! So, it's the last few CMs that should pay the price??? In what way will they 'pay the price' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted November 22, 2023 Author Share Posted November 22, 2023 A figure of £53M at the time was "spurious" and a "misquote". The only things that have been spurious have been competence and honesty by those involved and those overseeing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 39 minutes ago, asitis said: Sadly the same platitudes will be trotted out, the ongoing running costs will mean Government have done to the steamy exactly what others have done i.e. surrounded it with debt. What looked to be a sound business move in the acquisition of the business (although imo we paid far too much for it), now looks to be less of a money spinner and more of a millstone. In truth the taxpayer will be paying for these fiascos in all manner of ways, through goods, travel and a paucity of services elsewhere. Another depressing and unsavoury episode in the inept governance and administration of our home ! I don't think that there will be a debt for the SPCO will there? It's not their landing stage is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, Happier diner said: I don't think that there will be a debt for the SPCO will there? It's not their landing stage is it? No, but we know who will be bearing the brunt of the debt in whatever form don't we ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 18 minutes ago, asitis said: No, but we know who will be bearing the brunt of the debt in whatever form don't we ! It's not so much a debt as a large decline in reserves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 35 minutes ago, Happier diner said: It's not so much a debt as a large decline in reserves. Same thing to me, but I do get your point ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
code99 Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 17 hours ago, asitis said: Hasn't this been said on a few occasions previously ! I wouldn't be placing bets until the large lady sings ! I agree. The fact that Dr Allinson did not give the current estimate of the total cost of the Liverpool Dock project is something that needs to be corrected. The circa £70m costs in the PAC report only count what was spent up to December 2021/ February 2022, not November 2023. In effect this report is a partial report. Since December 2021/ February 2022, how many more millions, or tens of millions have been spent on this project that we are not being told about? Rather than spending (just) £70m, is the actual current figure now over £100m? The fact that no MHKs, as political office holders, dared to ask about this fundamental issue speaks volumes about their non-desire for political oversight of important projects. I thought the astute pieces of Cohen’s lyrics particularly apply to the IOMG and the IOM CS/PS e.g., DOI, Treasury, Health, Education… all of them have something in common with the song; something along the lines of “I’ve been there and it didn’t work out well” and “I’ve tried my best, but it wasn’t good enough”. The song Hallelujah is a sad song about failure, regret and has many uncomfortable resonances with the situation that, sadly, the Island and its residents are now finding themselves in. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbnuts Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 (edited) The cynic in me says they’re not going to use the 10 million as they know the public will really kick off . But I have little doubt that money is and will be needed but will ‘be found’ with a bit of creative accounting. Yeah I know cynical but let’s see if I’m right. Bit of Rob Peter to pay Paul is my bet. Edited November 22, 2023 by Numbnuts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted November 22, 2023 Author Share Posted November 22, 2023 4 hours ago, Happier diner said: It's not so much a debt as a large decline in reserves. Or will it come out of Revenue? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: Or will it come out of Revenue? Revenue isn't a pot of money, its a type of spend. Money from reserves comes out to fund capital and revenue expenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 20 minutes ago, Numbnuts said: The cynic in me says they’re not going to use the 10 million as they know the public will really kick off . But I have little doubt that money is and will be needed but will ‘be found’ with a bit of creative accounting. Yeah I know cynical but let’s see if I’m right. Bit of Rob Peter to pay Paul is my bet. I suspect you might be right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted November 22, 2023 Author Share Posted November 22, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Happier diner said: Revenue isn't a pot of money, its a type of spend. Money from reserves comes out to fund capital and revenue expenses. No....Revenue as in incoming taxation and charges. The reserves are at least partially earmarked for "other priorities", shall we say? A spend of this magnitude was never anticipated, even if it was initially to come out of reserves. The shortfall will have to be made up from somewhere. Edited November 22, 2023 by Non-Believer Extra bit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-lane Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 17 hours ago, Andy Onchan said: Still, not as bad as the catastrophe that is CALMAC and the Ferguson Nationalised shipyard @ £600 million and growing, eh? Well, what do you expect? They only get paid peanuts. MSPs only get paid £67,662 (for a population of 5,4 million). MHKs get paid £71,610, so the higher salary guarantees we are getting much more competence when it comes to failure. There is also this from 2020: "MSPs will reject a "wholly inappropriate" pay rise next year, Holyrood's presiding officer has said. Salary increases for MSPs are linked to public sector pay and they would have been in line for a 5.1% rise in 2021. But Ken Macintosh said the Scottish Parliament's cross-party corporate body had rejected a pay rise for members next year, and also called for salaries to be frozen. An MSP's salary is currently £64,470, following a 1.4% pay rise last year." Have MHKs ever made a similar statement? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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