Harry Lamb Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 5 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: Well quite. And for the same reason, the way that these projects are developed and run and indeed what the point of them is. There's a saying: The purpose of a system is what it does. Which sounds obvious, but is actually explains why things go wrong so often if you actually think about it. As that Wiki article says: [The phrase ] is a systems thinking heuristic coined by Stafford Beer, who observed that there is "no point in claiming that the purpose of a system is to do what it constantly fails to do." The term is widely used by systems theorists, and is generally invoked to counter the notion that the purpose of a system can be read from the intentions of those who design, operate, or promote it. When a system's side effects or unintended consequences reveal that its behaviour is poorly understood, then the POSIWID perspective can balance political understandings of system behaviour with a more straightforwardly descriptive view. So when things go repeatedly wrong in the same way, we have to ignore the claims of public benefit and good intentions (whether they are sincere or not doesn't matter), we have to look at what and who really benefited and how. Many of our departments achieve the opposite of what they are named for - in the same way as a ministry of defence is about attacking people and a ministry of employment focusses on the unemployed, our departments stifle enterprise, squander money, allow infrastructure to decay and obstruct the treatment of the sick. They accomplish the state of existence and little more. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hedgehog Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 18 hours ago, lfc84 said: Am I hearing it right that the Adelte Centaurus Boarding Bridge wasn't used. Even though this website has a photo of Manannan connected to it https://www.adelte.com/project/isle-of-man-ferry-terminal-uk/ There is a video on twitter showing foot passengers leaving by the stern door and walking up the linkspan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlebushy Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 At a rough price of £100 million and a population of 85 000, that's almost £1200.00 contributed by each person on the Isle of Man. I wonder how many families of 5 would have happily contributed £6000 to this project. Think about it, that is exactly what has happened. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-lane Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 24 minutes ago, Dave Hedgehog said: There is a video on twitter showing foot passengers leaving by the stern door and walking up the linkspan It would be good of someone who is au fait with this Internet stuff to post a link to the relevant page on the website formerly known as Prince Twitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-lane Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 How would one describe this - optional extra, retrofit? A device that can only connect to the specific Liverpool Landing Stage Adelte Centaurus Boarding Bridge. Everywhere else has to use an alternative - presumably a gangplank or similar. No doubt some matelot is going to say "That ain't going to survive a force 9". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 3 minutes ago, Two-lane said: How would one describe this - optional extra, retrofit? A device that can only connect to the specific Liverpool Landing Stage Adelte Centaurus Boarding Bridge. Everywhere else has to use an alternative - presumably a gangplank or similar. No doubt some matelot is going to say "That ain't going to survive a force 9". I doubt the vessel itself would survive a force 9, let alone the optional extra! 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-lane Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 5 hours ago, cissolt said: Is that really a passenger? Sounds more like the south African lady who reads the news. It sounded rather propagandist to me. If someone who is well past their prime, it is freezing cold and pouring with rain, and they have a heavy suitcase, and they are asked "How do you like the extra 3/4 km walk?", I think the answer will be rather different. The comment "It is a beautiful building that is practically structured" does not address the small problem of the cost. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 31 minutes ago, Two-lane said: It sounded rather propagandist to me. If someone who is well past their prime, it is freezing cold and pouring with rain, and they have a heavy suitcase, and they are asked "How do you like the extra 3/4 km walk?", I think the answer will be rather different. The comment "It is a beautiful building that is practically structured" does not address the small problem of the cost. If people go to heysham how d9 they manages foot passengers? Do they walk miles , no they organise a taxi or a lift. If people are past prime and it’s pouring with rain, would they walk from old terminal easily into town ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-lane Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 40 minutes ago, Banker said: If people go to heysham how d9 they manages foot passengers? Do they walk miles , no they organise a taxi or a lift. If people are past prime and it’s pouring with rain, would they walk from old terminal easily into town ? My comment was not directed at people having to walk. People who make the journey know what to expect. I was referring to a broadcast that I thought was propaganda. It was selective. There were no interviews with people with Manx or Liverpool accents. There was the phrase "It is a beautiful building that is practically structured", which made me wonder who the script writer was. I remain suspicious. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringy Rose Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 (edited) I’ve just used the new terminal. We used the bridge from the ferry into the terminal building. It seemed to take them a little while to line it up, and the bridge manufacturer had staff there assisting, but it was straight off the boat by the front door and onto the building, level access too. Much better than exiting via the car deck as used to be the case at the old landing stage. Once into the terminal the escalator was switched off for some reason so we had to use the stairs. The bags were on the conveyor belt by the time I walked into baggage reclaim. It had that new building smell. The check in area and the departure lounge looked very smart. It’s night and day compared to the old landing stage. To get from there was an extra 8 minutes’ walk- I’ve just timed it- from the new terminal to the old one, there is a footbridge on the right hand side as you exit the terminal which takes you over the mouth of the dock. This footbridge is not yet showing on Google or Apple Maps. The footbridge comes out next to Cargo restaurant so anyone needing walking instructions is best to put that into Google Maps; you might also want to use that as the address if you’re using an Uber as it’d knock a bit off the fare compared to driving around. Edited June 26 by Ringy Rose 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 2 hours ago, Two-lane said: It would be good of someone who is au fait with this Internet stuff to post a link to the relevant page on the website formerly known as Prince Twitter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-lane Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 37 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said: We used the bridge from the ferry into the terminal building. It seemed to take them a little while to line it up, and the bridge manufacturer had staff there assisting, but it was straight off the boat by the front door and onto the building, level access too. Much better than exiting via the car deck as used to be the case at the old landing stage. Nice, but is it necessary and what was the cost (plus maintenance)? That is the only location that the "airbridge" can be used. Every other port the Steam Packet goes to, the passengers have to use some other method. Would you pay extra to use the airbridge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringy Rose Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Two-lane said: Nice, but is it necessary and what was the cost (plus maintenance)? That is the only location that the "airbridge" can be used. Every other port the Steam Packet goes to, the passengers have to use some other method. There’s an “air bridge” gangway into the ferry at Heysham too. It is nice, they look to have done a good job. Whether it’s value for money, that’s a different argument. Edited June 26 by Ringy Rose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 1 hour ago, Ringy Rose said: To get from there was an extra 8 minutes’ walk- I’ve just timed it- from the new terminal to the old one, there is a footbridge on the right hand side as you exit the terminal which takes you over the mouth of the dock. This footbridge is not yet showing on Google or Apple Maps. The footbridge comes out next to Cargo restaurant so anyone needing walking instructions is best to put that into Google Maps; you might also want to use that as the address if you’re using an Uber as it’d knock a bit off the fare compared to driving around. Footbridge was only opened a fortnight ago - though I did supply a map in the other thread. I reckoned it was 750m, so 8 minutes sounds about right. It would be interesting to know if it is signed for pedestrians coming from the City centre, otherwise they might end up going the long way round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringy Rose Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said: It would be interesting to know if it is signed for pedestrians coming from the City centre, otherwise they might end up going the long way round. There are signs up at the old terminal telling you how you get to the new one, so if you walk there first it’s per clear. But otherwise it’s not well signed, and Google would send you the long way around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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