John Wright Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 1 hour ago, Two-lane said: The statement further up the page is attributed to Allinson (although I did not find the original). Allinson is Treasury Minister, so he knows a bit about money. Surely the Treasury Minister could not have made a mistake of that magnitude. If it had regularly been making £20 million, the UA buyout part of the purchase price, after early receipt discount, would have been north of £100 million. It wasn’t. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 (edited) Is the SP a manx registered Co.? Is the one mil a shareholder div with out any further tax due??? Even some of the staff are not paying Manx tax, are they? Edited June 30 by Kopek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 4 minutes ago, Kopek said: Is the SP a manx registered Co.? Is the one mil a shareholder div with out any further tax due??? Even some of the staff are not paying Manx tax, are they? Yes, it’s Manx registered. Taxation would be a circula inextrabilis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringy Rose Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 2 hours ago, John Wright said: Plus I’m not so sure the £20 million figure was correct. You’ll recall that SPCo was owned by an infrastructure investment fund, managed by McQuarrie, and had borrowings from Banco Spirito Santo. The interest and capital repayments weren’t being made and the Bank, a rescue bank set up to hold assets after the collapse of the Portuguese banking industry in 2008, seized the the shares due to non performance. That doesn’t happen if you have £20 million profit. Macquarie’s business methods have always been shady, and generally involves loading a company up with debt. Look at what they’ve done to Thames Water. So it’s possible that the operational profit was heading towards that level and it still not be enough to pay the debt, and that having taken their fill they’d got their investment back and didn’t care if the shares were seized. Macquarie have an uncanny ability to walk away and leave everyone else holding the baby. They’re not called the Vampire Kangaroo for nothing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 1 hour ago, John Wright said: If it had regularly been making £20 million, the UA buyout part of the purchase price, after early receipt discount, would have been north of £100 million. It wasn’t. I did read an article around 2018 that the SPCo was averaging a £10m annual profit over several years. The article called it a zombie company, as its profits were solely paying off a debt which was owed by McQuarrie to Banco Spiroto Santo. That's why it was transferred to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garteth T Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 9 hours ago, Max Power said: I did read an article around 2018 that the SPCo was averaging a £10m annual profit over several years. The article called it a zombie company, as its profits were solely paying off a debt which was owed by McQuarrie to Banco Spiroto Santo. That's why it was transferred to them. The Isle of Man Steam Packet is registered as a foreign company at Companies House so anybody can view the filed accounts for free. https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/FC006682 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 41 minutes ago, Garteth T said: The Isle of Man Steam Packet is registered as a foreign company at Companies House so anybody can view the filed accounts for free. https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/FC006682 Yes. And they show that in the decade before acquisition it never made £20 million. Profit bounced around between £5 and £14 million. Averaging about £9-10 million 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Lamb Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 1 hour ago, John Wright said: Yes. And they show that in the decade before acquisition it never made £20 million. Profit bounced around between £5 and £14 million. Averaging about £9-10 million In the 1970s SPC pref shares were the thing to have - 10% every divi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 9 minutes ago, Harry Lamb said: In the 1970s SPC pref shares were the thing to have - 10% every divi. I had 1000 ordinary shares. Inherited from my gran. Got a couple free returns a year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Gay'n Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 14 hours ago, Ringy Rose said: Macquarie’s business methods have always been shady, and generally involves loading a company up with debt. Look at what they’ve done to Thames Water. So it’s possible that the operational profit was heading towards that level and it still not be enough to pay the debt, and that having taken their fill they’d got their investment back and didn’t care if the shares were seized. Macquarie have an uncanny ability to walk away and leave everyone else holding the baby. They’re not called the Vampire Kangaroo for nothing. What we saw with the Macqarie structure was just the latest in a long line of variants of the 'leveraged buy out'. You are right to mention the UK water companies, because the financial engineering is obscene and almost never called out by the media (either through lack of investigative journalism skills or complicity in the 'capitalism is good in any form' mantra). The banks, private equity houses etc. doing these deals maximise their return while minimising their risk - it is always someone else's problem if anything goes wrong. To avoid corporation tax in the country where the acquisition target operates, debt is loaded in to make profits negligible and the interest on that debt is then syphoned away to a low/no tax jurisdiction via the beneficial clauses in double taxation treaties. The debt itself may be artificial, but governments seem to go along with it rather than legislating against it. Ask yourself where Sunak and Rees-Mogg made their money before becomimg MPs... Imagine me trying to explain this to the average MHK! 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 Liverpool bus timetable. New IoM Terminal to L1 and return. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted July 16 Author Share Posted July 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc.fixit Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Bit off topic but can anyone recommend a decent hotel for a few days stay in the centre of Liverpool? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissolt Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 9 minutes ago, doc.fixit said: Bit off topic but can anyone recommend a decent hotel for a few days stay in the centre of Liverpool? Depends on your budget. Heywood house hotel is decent value. I would avoid the Dolby hotel, awful rooms and the bathroom looks like it was reclaimed from the lady of mann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 11 minutes ago, doc.fixit said: Bit off topic but can anyone recommend a decent hotel for a few days stay in the centre of Liverpool? Ibis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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