Albert Tatlock Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 16 hours ago, Dirty Buggane said: Just as an aside, Gladys did you use a post code in your satnav ito get you close to the new terminal or is the signage quite good. Asking as I'm returning via Liverpool in September, and if you did would you be so kind as to put it up on here. As long as it is not causing anyone palpitations about disclosing state secrets as where it is, looked but cannot find info on Steam Pkt site. Just watched chariots of fire, Mona's Isle was a fine looking ship unlike the turd brick of the ManxMan https://maps.app.goo.gl/Nwhr7K11YeC8VZZh9 Head here and you're on the right road. Signage is pretty much non-existent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 2 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said: https://maps.app.goo.gl/Nwhr7K11YeC8VZZh9 Head here and you're on the right road. Signage is pretty much non-existent. A small board (maybe A3?) with easy to miss writing was the only signage the other week. I put "Next Left" into the satnav where Waterloo Road crossed the Kingsway Tunnel. Worked fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted August 18 Author Share Posted August 18 So, I'm out for a pint last night and happened to bump into an old school mate of mine who I haven't seen for donkey's years, school was a l-o-n-g time ago 🤭. He now plys his trade as a Chartered Quantity Surveyor in the north-west of England and after a bout of good natured reunion insults and banter, the Liverpool Terminal came up in the conversation. He told me that word within his trade says that there were goods, manpower, resources and materials booked to that job that never saw light of day at Half Tide Dock. Within the trade in his general area, if there were things that needed to be "lost" or otherwise accounted for, for people with the right connections it got booked to the Liverpool Terminal. I feigned shock and disbelief and said that our politicos had been very quiet about the Great Opening etc. and asked how much he thought would have been involved. The reply came back, "Probably millions. You people (meaning Manxies) have been ass-fucked over a barrel". Quote/unquote. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 54 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: So, I'm out for a pint last night and happened to bump into an old school mate of mine who I haven't seen for donkey's years, school was a l-o-n-g time ago 🤭. He now plys his trade as a Chartered Quantity Surveyor in the north-west of England and after a bout of good natured reunion insults and banter, the Liverpool Terminal came up in the conversation. He told me that word within his trade says that there were goods, manpower, resources and materials booked to that job that never saw light of day at Half Tide Dock. Within the trade in his general area, if there were things that needed to be "lost" or otherwise accounted for, for people with the right connections it got booked to the Liverpool Terminal. I feigned shock and disbelief and said that our politicos had been very quiet about the Great Opening etc. and asked how much he thought would have been involved. The reply came back, "Probably millions. You people (meaning Manxies) have been ass-fucked over a barrel". Quote/unquote. Have you or he informed the police? I am not sure I believe it. He is basically saying that the QS on the job, the project manager and project supervisor and the procurement team of the contractor are criminals. It can happen but rarely goes undetected. It could easily be audited. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted August 18 Author Share Posted August 18 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Happier diner said: Have you or he informed the police? I am not sure I believe it. He is basically saying that the QS on the job, the project manager and project supervisor and the procurement team of the contractor are criminals. It can happen but rarely goes undetected. It could easily be audited. It's neither my job nor his to inform the Police, that should fall on either our politicians or civil servants, but as both groups have been complicit in their incompetence then it's most unlikely that either will. As regards an audit, remember that we are talking about the DOI who wouldn't be able to take themselves for a shit and audit the number of sheets of bog roll that they'd used. Remember the Promenade figures that they didn't hold either? But if you seriously believe that the construction of a pre-fab metal building on a piece of leased ground should cost £100M< without there being something seriously wrong then carry on defending it and give us all a laugh. To be honest, I was shocked at the speed with which he came back, "Millions". If he'd said a few hundred thousand it would have rested easier. Edited August 18 by Non-Believer Extra bit 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 13 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: It's neither my job nor his to inform the Police, that should fall on either our politicians or civil servants, but as both groups have been complicit in their incompetence then it's most unlikely that either will. As regards an audit, remember that we are talking about the DOI who wouldn't be able to take themselves for a shit and audit the number of sheets of bog roll that they'd used. Remember the Promenade figures that they didn't hold either? But if you seriously believe that the construction of a pre-fab metal building on a piece of leased ground should cost £100M< without there being something seriously wrong then carry on defending it and give us all a laugh. To be honest, I was shocked at the speed with which he came back, "Millions". If he'd said a few hundred thousand it would have rested easier. I am prepared to report it to the police. Please PM me your name and his name and I will get the ball rolling. This is serious criminality and needs to be investigated. Not sure how civil servants or politicians can report something that they don't know about By means of your post, they do now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 15 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: It's neither my job nor his to inform the Police, that should fall on either our politicians or civil servants, but as both groups have been complicit in their incompetence then it's most unlikely that either will. As regards an audit, remember that we are talking about the DOI who wouldn't be able to take themselves for a shit and audit the number of sheets of bog roll that they'd used. Remember the Promenade figures that they didn't hold either? But if you seriously believe that the construction of a pre-fab metal building on a piece of leased ground should cost £100M< without there being something seriously wrong then carry on defending it and give us all a laugh. To be honest, I was shocked at the speed with which he came back, "Millions". If he'd said a few hundred thousand it would have rested easier. BTW I have never defended the cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 3 minutes ago, Happier diner said: I am prepared to report it to the police. Please PM me your name and his name and I will get the ball rolling. This is serious criminality and needs to be investigated. Not sure how civil servants or politicians can report something that they don't know about By means of your post, they do now. You're being ridiculous. Your 'report' would be based on hearsay about hearsay. The police would need specific, trackable instances where fraud had taken place, so as to prove it to a criminal standard. With full cooperation from the DoI and those with the evidence. And in any case fraud, except when at its simplest and committed by the least well-connected, is notoriously difficult to convict in British law. But it doesn't mean it didn't happen and that steps can't be taken to find out what did and hold accountable those whose negligence (at best) allowed the whole situation to happen. But nothing will change when the invariable reaction is, whenever something goes wrong, to treat it as being inexplicable and so best ignored, because those making the decisions can never be wrong in what they did or didn't do. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 38 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: It's neither my job nor his to inform the Police, that should fall on either our politicians or civil servants, but as both groups have been complicit in their incompetence then it's most unlikely that either will. As regards an audit, remember that we are talking about the DOI who wouldn't be able to take themselves for a shit and audit the number of sheets of bog roll that they'd used. Remember the Promenade figures that they didn't hold either? But if you seriously believe that the construction of a pre-fab metal building on a piece of leased ground should cost £100M< without there being something seriously wrong then carry on defending it and give us all a laugh. To be honest, I was shocked at the speed with which he came back, "Millions". If he'd said a few hundred thousand it would have rested easier. Wasn't the majority of the cost was the groundworks and below water? "£100m for a shed" is something often quoted which is just wrong, not that the final cost is acceptable, but it wasn't for the shed. Not sure how you report to the police as there is little solid fact in what you have reported for them to investigate. Perhaps your friend could be persuaded to give some more concrete facts to the police? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyWolf Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 Hearsay or not, somehow I for one wouldn’t be at all surprised if it did happen but we will never find out. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 3 hours ago, Non-Believer said: So, I'm out for a pint last night and happened to bump into an old school mate of mine who I haven't seen for donkey's years, school was a l-o-n-g time ago 🤭. He now plys his trade as a Chartered Quantity Surveyor in the north-west of England and after a bout of good natured reunion insults and banter, the Liverpool Terminal came up in the conversation. He told me that word within his trade says that there were goods, manpower, resources and materials booked to that job that never saw light of day at Half Tide Dock. Within the trade in his general area, if there were things that needed to be "lost" or otherwise accounted for, for people with the right connections it got booked to the Liverpool Terminal. I feigned shock and disbelief and said that our politicos had been very quiet about the Great Opening etc. and asked how much he thought would have been involved. The reply came back, "Probably millions. You people (meaning Manxies) have been ass-fucked over a barrel". Quote/unquote. Probably a bull shitter like yourself 😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said: You're being ridiculous. Your 'report' would be based on hearsay about hearsay. The police would need specific, trackable instances where fraud had taken place, so as to prove it to a criminal standard. With full cooperation from the DoI and those with the evidence. And in any case fraud, except when at its simplest and committed by the least well-connected, is notoriously difficult to convict in British law. But it doesn't mean it didn't happen and that steps can't be taken to find out what did and hold accountable those whose negligence (at best) allowed the whole situation to happen. But nothing will change when the invariable reaction is, whenever something goes wrong, to treat it as being inexplicable and so best ignored, because those making the decisions can never be wrong in what they did or didn't do. Reporting the theft of millions of pounds worth of good is ridiculous. It would be a crime if a grand scale and very easy to prove He is bull shitting of course and I don't believe it for an instant. Lots of people in different companies would have to be involved . I am calling his bluff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 Just now, Banker said: Probably a bull shitter like yourself 😂 Indeed. It's certain. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 2 hours ago, Gladys said: Wasn't the majority of the cost was the groundworks and below water? "£100m for a shed" is something often quoted which is just wrong, not that the final cost is acceptable, but it wasn't for the shed. I don't think Non-Believer's old school mate was talking in the context of just the actual building. Putting costs from elsewhere under the heading of (unexpected) groundworks would possibly be even easier. How can you tell how many loads of hardcore went in a hole - particularly when the hole had never been identified or explained. Such behaviour wouldn't be the main contributor for the massive cost inflation, but when a project is known to be out of control, unscrupulous people are going to exploit that fact. And of course government contracts would be more of a target anyway - especially when the government is far away and know to be lackadaisical about controls. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 1 hour ago, Happier diner said: Reporting the theft of millions of pounds worth of good is ridiculous. It would be a crime if a grand scale and very easy to prove He is bull shitting of course and I don't believe it for an instant. Lots of people in different companies would have to be involved . I am calling his bluff. It would certainly be a crime, but extremely difficult to prove - especially on unspecific, third-hand, industry gossip. But industry gossip is often true as those working 'on the ground' will see and hear things that those in distant offices don't - and don't want to. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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