Non-Believer Posted August 18 Author Share Posted August 18 1 hour ago, Banker said: Probably a bull shitter like yourself 😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwebs Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 An audit of the shed accounts with a £180m overspend seems appropriate. Also and audit of other fiascos should be applied: The power station extension - £500 million overspend and rising. IRIS - I have no idea how much this was over budget. The Promenade - another grand example of incompetence. Bus Vannin? Heritage railways? Most of these have been swept under the carpet and kept out of sight. They all need looking into, blame apportioning. I doubt if there will be any consequences for the guilty, as with Summerland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted August 18 Author Share Posted August 18 1 hour ago, Happier diner said: Reporting the theft of millions of pounds worth of good is ridiculous. It would be a crime if a grand scale and very easy to prove He is bull shitting of course and I don't believe it for an instant. Lots of people in different companies would have to be involved . I am calling his bluff. You are deluded. Are you seriously trying to say that an IoM Gov project, on Murkyside of all places, that went twenty or more times over original cost budget would be all above board, squeaky clean by audit and fault free? Jebus you must be naive. When people a sight physically closer to the project and working in the same industry in that location have, in my opinion,reliable information to the contrary. Why would anybody make something like that up? Other than being in the trade he has no connection with the project, still has family here who are all going to be impacted by the costs (as we all are). I would put his word before any of the people who led us down this road and subsequently stated that we should never have got involved, "had we known the costs". Which in itself is an admission that they weren't in control from the start. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercenary Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 23 minutes ago, philwebs said: An audit of the shed accounts with a £180m overspend seems appropriate. Also and audit of other fiascos should be applied: The power station extension - £500 million overspend and rising. IRIS - I have no idea how much this was over budget. The Promenade - another grand example of incompetence. Bus Vannin? Heritage railways? Most of these have been swept under the carpet and kept out of sight. They all need looking into, blame apportioning. I doubt if there will be any consequences for the guilty, as with Summerland. When it's over so many projects it's clear it's an estimating/governance/political issue for the large gap between initial estimate and outturn cost. You're not buying tins of beans from a shop - these are complex projects over several years with various levels of risk held by the government/supply chain. There's loads of studies on this area (google 'optimism bias') and the biggest factor is generally overly optimistic initial forecasts to receive funding for the project (often pushed for by Treasury in removing risk allocations etc) and scope creep from political pressure / lobbying by special interest groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said: I don't think Non-Believer's old school mate was talking in the context of just the actual building. Putting costs from elsewhere under the heading of (unexpected) groundworks would possibly be even easier. How can you tell how many loads of hardcore went in a hole - particularly when the hole had never been identified or explained. Such behaviour wouldn't be the main contributor for the massive cost inflation, but when a project is known to be out of control, unscrupulous people are going to exploit that fact. And of course government contracts would be more of a target anyway - especially when the government is far away and know to be lackadaisical about controls. No, but Non-believer was referring to £100m for a prefab shed. Also agree that some shenanigans are a possibility, but as you have also said a bit of chat down the pub is not going to be sufficient for the police to investigate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said: I don't think Non-Believer's old school mate was talking in the context of just the actual building. Putting costs from elsewhere under the heading of (unexpected) groundworks would possibly be even easier. How can you tell how many loads of hardcore went in a hole - particularly when the hole had never been identified or explained. Such behaviour wouldn't be the main contributor for the massive cost inflation, but when a project is known to be out of control, unscrupulous people are going to exploit that fact. And of course government contracts would be more of a target anyway - especially when the government is far away and know to be lackadaisical about controls. 1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said: It would certainly be a crime, but extremely difficult to prove - especially on unspecific, third-hand, industry gossip. But industry gossip is often true as those working 'on the ground' will see and hear things that those in distant offices don't - and don't want to. Sorry Mexico. You are quite wrong and showing a bit of an ignorance if how a major construction project works. A bit of petty crime here and there is happen. But accusing a QS of theft is no small accusations. The QS is a person of profession repute and it's independent of the contractor and the client. I think that if @Non-Believer s post does not break the rules of this forum it should. It's a slanderous accusations of a person and their organisation who is effectively being named. Anyway, I have called his bluff. I doubt he will take it. It's bullshit. Absolute. I hope he is pursued through the courts. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 31 minutes ago, Mercenary said: When it's over so many projects it's clear it's an estimating/governance/political issue for the large gap between initial estimate and outturn cost. You're not buying tins of beans from a shop - these are complex projects over several years with various levels of risk held by the government/supply chain. There's loads of studies on this area (google 'optimism bias') and the biggest factor is generally overly optimistic initial forecasts to receive funding for the project (often pushed for by Treasury in removing risk allocations etc) and scope creep from political pressure / lobbying by special interest groups. There is a big difference between poor estimating and crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 3 minutes ago, Gladys said: No, but Non-believer was referring to £100m for a prefab shed. Also agree that some shenanigans are a possibility, but as you have also said a bit of chat down the pub is not going to be sufficient for the police to investigate. He is not alleging shenanigans though is he? He is alleging corruption on a massive scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 6 hours ago, Non-Believer said: He now plys his trade as a Chartered Quantity Surveyor in the north-west of England and after a bout of good natured reunion insults and banter, the Liverpool Terminal came up in the conversation. @Roger Mexico @Gladys Let's just remind ourselves of what he is alleging Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 Just now, Happier diner said: He is not alleging shenanigans though is he? He is alleging corruption on a massive scale. Shenanigans covers a multitude of sins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 Just now, Happier diner said: @Roger Mexico @Gladys Let's just remind ourselves of what he is alleging I know what his posts alleged. All I am saying is that a bit of pub chat is not enough to prompt a police investigation and the £100m is not just for the building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A fool and his money..... Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 Yeah, come on guys. You don't really believe anything went missing in Liverpool do you? That would be unheard of 😀. I can bloody guarantee a good proportion of the tens of million overspend went out the back door, you'd have to be extremely naive to believe otherwise. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 2 hours ago, A fool and his money..... said: Yeah, come on guys. You don't really believe anything went missing in Liverpool do you? That would be unheard of 😀. I can bloody guarantee a good proportion of the tens of million overspend went out the back door, you'd have to be extremely naive to believe otherwise. Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringy Rose Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 8 minutes ago, Happier diner said: Wow. The citizens of Liverpool are renowned throughout the world for their honesty and probity. I don’t understand why anyone would accuse Scousers of being thieves. I can certainly see why you’re clutching your pearls. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted August 18 Author Share Posted August 18 (edited) 2 hours ago, Happier diner said: Sorry Mexico. You are quite wrong and showing a bit of an ignorance if how a major construction project works. A bit of petty crime here and there is happen. But accusing a QS of theft is no small accusations. The QS is a person of profession repute and it's independent of the contractor and the client. I think that if @Non-Believer s post does not break the rules of this forum it should. It's a slanderous accusations of a person and their organisation who is effectively being named. Anyway, I have called his bluff. I doubt he will take it. It's bullshit. Absolute. I hope he is pursued through the courts. Who is accusing the quantity surveyor of theft? Where have I posted that? The quantity surveyor may not have even been aware of what was allegedly going on. Methinks your defence of your beloved DOI is plumbing new depths here, do I detect skin in the game. Let's consider a few things. Firstly, in a project where costs spiralled out of control to £100M<, £1M, £2M or £5M is chickenfeed. It's tiny percentages, relatively speaking and could easily be "lost", nudge nudge. Secondly, consider the goons who were "managing" the project, whose only sense of financial responsibility was knowing that they could meander back to another set of goons, cap in hand knowing that said second goons would vote them more money and make any amount of excuses for them. And duly did so, on a number of occasions. Such as, "We've gone so far, we can't stop now", for instance. Thirdly, as already alluded to, consider the well-earned reputation of the area concerned. Joe Anderson, anybody? Fourthly. They said nobody would be able to spend half a billion on a new power station on a small island. We managed it. Look at the financial control that went on there. Things like this weren't supposed to be able to happen again. They just did. Edited August 18 by Non-Believer Extra bit 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.