Taxpayers to dig for £20M for Liverpool Dock

[CallMeCurious]

14 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

I think before Tynwald grants a further £32M to this there needs to be a nuts and bolts, forensic look into where the spend to date has gone.

Not necessarily to apportion blame (at this stage) but actually find out what we've actually got to to date for our money. Because that money has GONE and it's not coming back, so there is no sense in throwing further money down the same road without knowing how it's going to be used and whether there's actually an end to it.

If that examination throws up questions that need to be answered then obtain those answers BEFORE we supply further funding.

Government is big on the sunk cost fallacy.

Some brave soul mentioned the option of walking away from it now. Except the site only has planning for a dock which means a lot lower value (compared with what we've already paid and 'invested') in the current climate for cruise ships.

This will end up in the £100m region for 'reasons' if the prom is anything to go by.

I do wonder how we bought a dock that wasn't fit for purpose as evidenced by the need for anti-scouring reinforcement* and bomb clearing. Someone didn't do their due diligence. 

*The 'reason' given was because of the new ferry. Which is a bit disconcerting given the intended lifespan of the facility. I hope the rest of the equipment to get freight, crew, cars and passengers on and off a modern ferry are at least compatible with the new ferry.

 

 

 

 

[Banker]

We’re a soft touch says Crookall 

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/isle-of-man-seen-as-soft-touch-after-liverpool-project-spirals/

[Andy Onchan]

One thing that struck me looking at that designer's picture on the MR site.... there is no way IOMSPCo will be loading any conventional road freight units in any emergency. The linkspan only looks big enough for cars and light vans. Another fuck up?

[monasqueen]

1 minute ago, Andy Onchan said:

One thing that struck me looking at that designer's picture on the MR site.... there is no way IOMSPCo will be loading any conventional road freight units in any emergency. The linkspan only looks big enough for cars and light vans. Another fuck up?

If it's not big enough for anything larger than a small van, that excludes coaches, too, so coach companies that might have stopped by for a day in Liverpool before or after visiting the IOM will not be able to.

That's Liverpool's loss, not ours.

[Non-Believer]

39 minutes ago, Banker said:

We’re a soft touch says Crookall 

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/isle-of-man-seen-as-soft-touch-after-liverpool-project-spirals/

'Twas ever thus. Including in respect of some of the "expert" people Govt has imported and employed.

But also bear in mind that TC has already stated that his primary role is to, "defend his Dept"....so perhaps he has no intention of finding out who decided to progress this business against advice?

Edited December 4, 2021 by Non-Believer
extra bit

[Gladys]

6 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

'Twas ever thus. Including in respect of some of the "expert" people Govt has imported and employed.

But also bear in mind that TC has already stated that his primary role is to, "defend his Dept"....so perhaps he has no intention of finding out who decided to progress this business against advice?

Defending his department does not mean he shouldn't investigate, quite the reverse. 

[asitis]

14 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

'Twas ever thus. Including in respect of some of the "expert" people Govt has imported and employed.

But also bear in mind that TC has already stated that his primary role is to, "defend his Dept"....so perhaps he has no intention of finding out who decided to progress this business against advice?

We badly need someone to defend the taxpayers !!

[CallMeCurious]

1 hour ago, Roxanne said:

That all sound horribly familiar. That’s how we got the incinerator. Energy from Waste Plant And the holding tanks. And Iris. Probably Mavis too. 

Small correction. Iris isn't even finished yet is it? Laxey and Peel still shitting in the sea. And Ramsey were too until quite recently. Conceived in 1992 and here we are 30 years later... still shitting in the sea.

https://www.burroughs.co.uk/i-r-i-s/

https://www.manxutilities.im/about-us/our-assets/sewerage/iris-project/

[Beelzebub3]

I am beginning to warm to TC he has grown a pair of balls and not afraid to speak up about past failures however, how he deals with the said issue's will be the real "proof of the pudding"  in my eyes. I sincerely hope he comes good and gets to grips with the management at DOI he has made a start with Black now he needs to go down the chain of command and get rid of the other wasters in the Department, then we may see a change in attitude towards public spending and might even restore a little faith in the DOI.

[2112]

54 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

'Twas ever thus. Including in respect of some of the "expert" people Govt has imported and employed.

But also bear in mind that TC has already stated that his primary role is to, "defend his Dept"....so perhaps he has no intention of finding out who decided to progress this business against advice?

I would say that Crookall instead of defending his department his overall interest should be defending the rights of the taxpayers. Those that use Liverpool to travel to and from have an interest. Some politicos have probably never ventured off island so won’t be familiar with travelling on the Ben or Manannan. Steam Packet users will probably bear the brunt of this screw up in form of higher costs, increased fares. Heads should role ……… they won’t though.

[GreyWolf]

Baker, Harmer and Gawne must come before an independent committee

( not they old mhk mates) and get a proper grilling as how they seemed to be asleep on there watch at D.O.I along with many others within the government machine, for once there has to be people held to account and not just brushed under the carpet otherwise this island is morally bankrupt which makes me sad and embarrassed. So far am pleased with Crookall sound bites but he must follow it through.

[Gladys]

8 minutes ago, 2112 said:

I would say that Crookall instead of defending his department his overall interest should be defending the rights of the taxpayers. Those that use Liverpool to travel to and from have an interest. Some politicos have probably never ventured off island so won’t be familiar with travelling on the Ben or Manannan. Steam Packet users will probably bear the brunt of this screw up in form of higher costs, increased fares. Heads should role ……… they won’t though.

If he defends his department, he defends the taxpayer.  Remember, the department is supreme over the individuals within it. 

[Non-Believer]

7 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Remember, the department is supreme over the individuals within it. 

Unfortunately that doesn't seem to have been the case over the last ten or so years 

[2112]

3 minutes ago, Gladys said:

If he defends his department, he defends the taxpayer.  Remember, the department is supreme over the individuals within it. 

One the one hand you are right. Sadly Ministers are too interested in their own departments, their own interests and they have allowed civil servants to dictate policies, especially with the Promenade and Liverpool. What did the Council of Ministers actually do, there must have been discussions on topics like the Promenade and the Liverpool Ferry Terminal? Alf keeping his mouth shut? He is as guilty as others, it’s a fact! The Treasury proposed a Major Capital Projects Unit for capital projects costing over £3m. Personally I won’t trust the civil servants with £1. It’s good that Crookall has opened his mouth, and he is prepared to cause waves. He may be seen in a more favourable light if he gets rid of the civil service career wasters, even if he upsets people in the process. 

[Max Power]

41 minutes ago, Beelzebub3 said:

I am beginning to warm to TC he has grown a pair of balls and not afraid to speak up about past failures.

It's easy to speak about failures which are not your own. He needs to be careful that the DoI cohort don't set him up for a few failures which he can be blamed for!