Taxpayers to dig for £20M for Liverpool Dock

[cissolt]

john wannenburgh calling for the heads of the DOI management.  Hear hear.

[b4mbi]

It's so late in the day with so much spent that they have no option other than to approve it.

I'd be gobsmacked if they don't.

 

 

[Numbnuts]

9 minutes ago, cissolt said:

john wannenburgh calling for the heads of the DOI management.  Hear hear.

This !! The incompetance can't  continue and sadly , as peoples livehoods are involved , its a difficult decision but there needs to be a clear out of personnel in DOI . Cost us too much .  

[Non-Believer]

I'd like to know how much it's going to cost the taxpayer into the future and by what means the spend will be recouped.

ETA. This project is now scheduled for "completion" in mid-2023. If the new funding is granted now, who's to say that there won't be further requests between now and then?

PAC should be crawling all over this before the new funding is granted and there need to be guarantees made about the future progress and costs.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Non-Believer
extra bit

[asitis]

2 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

I'd like to know how much it's going to cost the taxpayer into the future and by what means the spend will be recouped.

ETA. This project is now scheduled for "completion" in mid-2023. If the new funding is granted now, who's to say that there won't be further requests between now and then?

PAC should be crawling all over this before the new funding is granted and there need to be guarantees made about the future progress and costs.

I agree we cannot carry on with an open chequebook, and I know loads won't agree, but I would vote walk away with as little outlay as possible and lick our wounds ! The fast craft needs replacing and again madness to get another vessel which can't operate late autumn to spring, and even then into a non freight port. Like many things Governments takeover of the SPCO is fast turning into a financial black hole, not into the revenue earning entity we bought it as !

[2112]

29 minutes ago, asitis said:

I agree we cannot carry on with an open chequebook, and I know loads won't agree, but I would vote walk away with as little outlay as possible and lick our wounds ! The fast craft needs replacing and again madness to get another vessel which can't operate late autumn to spring, and even then into a non freight port. Like many things Governments takeover of the SPCO is fast turning into a financial black hole, not into the revenue earning entity we bought it as !

Alfs toy

[John Wright]

24 minutes ago, asitis said:

I agree we cannot carry on with an open chequebook, and I know loads won't agree, but I would vote walk away with as little outlay as possible and lick our wounds ! The fast craft needs replacing and again madness to get another vessel which can't operate late autumn to spring, and even then into a non freight port. Like many things Governments takeover of the SPCO is fast turning into a financial black hole, not into the revenue earning entity we bought it as !

1. We didn’t buy it as a revenue earning entity. We bought it as protection of vital sea links.

2. where is it a black hole? It was always known the purchase price would have to be paid out of the first six years revenue stream and that new tonnage would have to be purchased over the first ten years.

3. No decision has been made about what type of vessel will replace Mannanan. It doesn’t need replacing yet. The window was always 2026-30.

4. When new Manxman comes in service the management will want to see how it goes, they’ll ditch Arrow, and can experiment using Ben & Manxman. My prediction is Nanxman2 rather than Mannanan2.

5. They’ve ridden out the storm of covid and a huge drop in cars/passengers carried in last 20 months. Much better than most. And they’ve been a life line, just as intended.

6. I saw arrow alongside at Portsmouth today providing CI freight back up. I’m typing from BF MV Galicia. Just rounding Cap Finistere. Some interesting kit out and design features.

[asitis]

Thanks John, in reference to your point at 1., if we didn't buy it as a revenue earning entity, then we overpaid for it many times. Part of the valuation was indeed the revenue the monopoly carried forward was worth !

[John Wright]

2 minutes ago, asitis said:

Thanks John, in reference to your point at 1., if we didn't buy it as a revenue earning entity, then we overpaid for it many times. Part of the valuation was indeed the revenue the monopoly carried forward was worth !

That completely misunderstands the deal and how the price was calculated.

[Utah 01]

14 minutes ago, John Wright said:

We didn’t buy it as a revenue earning entity. We bought it as protection of vital sea links

..............yet you argue vehemently against the same for air routes; perhaps not your preferred mode of travel these days?

[hissingsid]

Buying the Steam Packet was the best thing the last government did it is our lifeline and was invaluable during the pandemic.    Securing the berth at Liverpool was the way forward I reckon with a 237 year lease it has given us a permanent investment.    The price has been very high but it is possible the costing was not true in the beginning it is a mammoth  task and there have been obstacles aplenty but now hopefully will progress to a satisfactory conclusion.   Perhaps the government could stop wasting money on stupid Love your Isle of Man schemes.   It was mentioned this afternoon in Tynwald that the film industry cost the Tax payers a cool 26 million quid what a waste.   At least we will reap the benefit of the landing stage.

[Twitch]

27 minutes ago, hissingsid said:

Buying the Steam Packet was the best thing the last government did it is our lifeline and was invaluable during the pandemic.    Securing the berth at Liverpool was the way forward I reckon with a 237 year lease it has given us a permanent investment.    The price has been very high but it is possible the costing was not true in the beginning it is a mammoth  task and there have been obstacles aplenty but now hopefully will progress to a satisfactory conclusion.   Perhaps the government could stop wasting money on stupid Love your Isle of Man schemes.   It was mentioned this afternoon in Tynwald that the film industry cost the Tax payers a cool 26 million quid what a waste.   At least we will reap the benefit of the landing stage.

I'm sure it's been covered in other threads but, hypothetically, if SP had not been bought by the Govt and retained within its former ownership structure, what would have happened if SP had defaulted on its obligations under the User Agreement? Could we have picked up a ferry company even cheaper?

[Lost Login]

Unfortunately there are only two options available and both are unpleasant. It is a question of which is the least unpleasant. Ideally you would not want to have to choose either but unfortunately that is not an option.

I was unimpressed with contribution of Wannerburgh which just seemed to be grandstanding. Yes heads should roll if and when we know where responsibility for the f**k up lies but simply calling for the heads of all senior bods in the DOI just seemed a cheap shot. The bottom line is probably that either the designing, costing etc was wrong, or contracts were badly drafted. Possibly both. I would expect that little of the former was in the hands of the DOI so the area for review will be with regard to the selection of the particular consultants.   

[Mr Helmut Fromage]

38 minutes ago, hissingsid said:

Buying the Steam Packet was the best thing the last government did it is our lifeline and was invaluable during the pandemic.    Securing the berth at Liverpool was the way forward I reckon with a 237 year lease it has given us a permanent investment.    The price has been very high but it is possible the costing was not true in the beginning it is a mammoth  task and there have been obstacles aplenty but now hopefully will progress to a satisfactory conclusion.   Perhaps the government could stop wasting money on stupid Love your Isle of Man schemes.   It was mentioned this afternoon in Tynwald that the film industry cost the Tax payers a cool 26 million quid what a waste.   At least we will reap the benefit of the landing stage.

Wow - we’ve paid over the odds to buy a loss making ferry company, had our pants pulled down to the tune of £70 million for a parking space in Liverpool, the not investigated film industry lost silly money whilst being robbed blind by incestuous private film contracts (now dead) that Govt supported - but a fucking scheme to get people to spend locally is the problem -ARRRRFFFFFFFF

I love it when a CS outs themselves 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Mr Helmut Fromage

[Twitch]

27 minutes ago, Mr Helmut Fromage said:

Wow - we’ve paid over the odds to buy a loss making ferry company, had our pants pulled down to the tune of £70 million for a parking space in Liverpool, the not investigated film industry lost silly money whilst being robbed blind by incestuous private film contracts (now dead) that Govt supported - but a fucking scheme to get people to spend locally is the problem -ARRRRFFFFFFFF

I love it when a CS outs themselves 

At least when the landing stage in Liverpool is finished I’ll be able to nip over and spend several hundred pounds per visit in their local economy.