Taxpayers to dig for £20M for Liverpool Dock

[Petefella]

3 minutes ago, Lost Login said:

I listed to Tynwald and re-read Hansard. David Ashford, I thought, clearly explained why a member should or should not  vote for the funding of the new Liverpool landing stage. As he voted for the funding then I think he has explained why he voted as he did.

I thought different. Which is why I want a more detailed answer. 

[Lost Login]

13 minutes ago, Petefella said:

I thought different. Which is why I want a more detailed answer. 

I thought Ashford was very clear. The choice was paying the funds and having a landing stage in Liverpool or not funding in which case the possibility of being able to sail to Liverpool or anywhere in that part of the world would shortly disappear for a considerable period. 

[asitis]

1 minute ago, Lost Login said:

I thought Ashford was very clear. The choice was paying the funds and having a landing stage in Liverpool or not funding in which case the possibility of being able to sail to Liverpool or anywhere in that part of the world would shortly disappear for a considerable period. 

...apparently he then left the room and shredded himself !

[Non-Believer]

1 hour ago, Petefella said:

Voters work like that. You sound like Chris Thomas to be honest. Finding some sort of constitutional technicality to get people off the hook.

Well, I've been insulted before but that crowns it I'd say 😂

But those constitutional technicalities exist; and for a good few they are a get-out clause. It is extremely difficult to pin responsibility on anybody in the present, let alone the past. But that's the way they designed the political system.

Win-win for some. Lose-lose for too many others - the voters. And they don't get much of a say unfortunately.

[Petefella]

20 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Well, I've been insulted before but that crowns it I'd say 😂

It wasn’t an insult honestly, 

[Happier diner]

8 minutes ago, Petefella said:

It wasn’t an insult honestly, 

You say someone sounds like Chris Thomas.....but not meaning it to be an insult. Crikey. 

[Petefella]

8 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

You say someone sounds like Chris Thomas.....but not meaning it to be an insult. Crikey. 

He always comes across as a nice chap just a bit nerdy and OCD. 

[2112]

http://news.sky.com/story/unite-announces-inquiry-into-16398m-hotel-complex-built-under-len-mccluskey-12501105
 

This article on Sky News illustrates parallels between something which was supposed to be built at a ‘low cost’ but ballooned to mega costs. Rather like the Liverpool Landing Stage, and once the final bills are in, it’s possible to cost more than £70millions.

Perhaps Tynpotwald would be wise to seek a motion and possibly get a proper inquiry headed by a decent (experienced) QC, rather than the usual tame Athol Street friendly Manx Establishment Advocates headed inquiry. If IOMG can spend £70million+ then then additional inquiry fees may be worth it, and set a marker to civil servants and politicos, that if mega schemes are found to be wanting, over budgeted and mismanaged, they can be investigated, with the findings made public. 

[asitis]

Over the past thirty years there does seem to have been large amounts of money whose whereabouts is not reflected in the facades we present to the outside world. At the same time much of it has sidestepped a proper enquiry. Government and the CS have always been afraid to let the sun shine in. Until that attitude changes we will continue to see money disappear through incompetence or otherwise. 

The reason we could inconceivably end up as a county of the UK, will not be any anti Manx sentiment from comeovers or others, but merely utter fiscal incompetence !

Edited December 21, 2021 by asitis

[Petefella]

6 hours ago, 2112 said:

http://news.sky.com/story/unite-announces-inquiry-into-16398m-hotel-complex-built-under-len-mccluskey-12501105
 

This article on Sky News illustrates parallels between something which was supposed to be built at a ‘low cost’ but ballooned to mega costs. Rather like the Liverpool Landing Stage, and once the final bills are in, it’s possible to cost more than £70millions.

No surprises that story links to a bent Liverpool property developer and Joe Anderson’s bent son. That would be the same Joe Anderson who Phil Gawne met right at the start of all this

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/upside-of-landing-stage-relocation-gawne/

This has the distinct whiff of the standard Liverpool centric property fraud about the whole thing. 

[2112]

56 minutes ago, Petefella said:

No surprises that story links to a bent Liverpool property developer and Joe Anderson’s bent son. That would be the same Joe Anderson who Phil Gawne met right at the start of all this

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/upside-of-landing-stage-relocation-gawne/

This has the distinct whiff of the standard Liverpool centric property fraud about the whole thing. 

No surprises. 
 

Like the request for an inquiry into Covid on the island was kicked into the long grass in the grounds of costs, an inquiry into the Liverpool Landing Stage would also cost, but it hopefully identify shortcomings, wastage and involve forensic financial accountants. Ministers, Ex Ministers and Civil Servants could be forced to provide assistance or evidence , and refusal could be used as an admission of possible guilt or wrongdoing. 
 

Perhaps a major inquiry led by a judge ( not a Demeter) or top QC may also send a shot across the bows of the civil servants, the politicos and the establishment that in future, any large scale infrastructure project, which seriously overspends has the potential to be investigated, and those found wanting, disciplined. 

[Andy Onchan]

18 hours ago, Andy Onchan said:

So, MHKs voted through a shed load of money without knowing what they were paying for on our behalf?

If they haven't been presented with any detailed information but voted this through then none of them deserve to be in Tynwald. 

 

So.... no MHK who frequents this forum is prepared to stand up for the electorate/tax payer to confirm if they received anything, anything at all in the way of detailed financial information from DOI before they voted through the funding??

[Nom de plume]

There will be a Civil Servant somewhere (I hope), who would have been tasked with appointing the design team on this project.

That design team would have comprised a lead Architect, Structural Engineer, Maritime Engineers & Surveyors (owing to the specialist nature of the work), Quantity Surveyor & M&E Consultant.

The design team would have been given an all encompassing brief which would have produced a detailed tender package for contractors to price against.

Small variations (increased costs) occur in most construction projects as tender documents are often not as detailed as one might like or unaccounted for situations arise or the client makes design changes during the construction phase.

I'm not sure who manages these projects from an IOM Govt. perspective but whoever they are, they are useless, wasteful cunts.

Their due diligence assessing tender documentation and returned tenders is lamentable.

This project is an utter shit show as seems the case with every major project they undertake or have their paws over.

I'm so mad, I've spilled my Egg Nog.

[Andy Onchan]

37 minutes ago, Nom de plume said:

There will be a Civil Servant somewhere (I hope), who would have been tasked with appointing the design team on this project.

That design team would have comprised a lead Architect, Structural Engineer, Maritime Engineers & Surveyors (owing to the specialist nature of the work), Quantity Surveyor & M&E Consultant.

The design team would have been given an all encompassing brief which would have produced a detailed tender package for contractors to price against.

Small variations (increased costs) occur in most construction projects as tender documents are often not as detailed as one might like or unaccounted for situations arise or the client makes design changes during the construction phase.

I'm not sure who manages these projects from an IOM Govt. perspective but whoever they are, they are useless, wasteful cunts.

Their due diligence assessing tender documentation and returned tenders is lamentable.

This project is an utter shit show as seems the case with every major project they undertake or have their paws over.

I'm so mad, I've spilled my Egg Nog.

As someone else pointed out earlier in the thread it was also probably subject to political interference, along with a belief that we would be looked after the lessor!

[Gladys]

20 hours ago, Happier diner said:

There must be a project board. 

I can't find anything, I may not be looking in the right place.