Taxpayers to dig for £20M for Liverpool Dock

[Happier diner]

13 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

I think you probably have to further differentiate that which you would say in front of your wife, and that which you would say in front of your family ( say your mother or your children) 

But for context, you’re not saying that in front of either of those, you’re saying it on an Internet forum to people you don’t know, so is it actually such a good test?

It gets very complicated. Probably best to err on the side of caution and not use such terms at all.

But easier said than done in the heat of the moment.

 

Yes but that sort of language puts off younger people joining (in my view) this forum and wouldn't be tolerated in many forums that I know of.

I have lobbied @John Wright a few times and to be fair he does discourage it....but doesn't ban it. 

[Happier diner]

11 minutes ago, Paulos The Great said:

They have nothing to risk is the reality. What is Tim Crookall or Alf Cannan going to do about any of this? Nothing is the word. The management in the DOI will sit there and collect their pensions in however many years time laughing in the taxpayers face. 

That sounds very bitter. Not sure they would be laughing in the taxpayers face, more quietly content perhaps, or even smug.😁

[The Voice of Reason]

3 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Yes but that sort of language puts off younger people joining (in my view) this forum and wouldn't be tolerated in many forums that I know of.

I have lobbied @John Wright a few times and to be fair he does discourage it....but doesn't ban it. 

But it is my experience in real life that it is the younger people that are more likely to employ that sort of language 

But you are quite right it’s not nice and maybe we should have a warning system, so many strikes and you are out or banned. Anyway not for me to say

Edited December 21, 2021 by The Voice of Reason

[Happier diner]

1 minute ago, The Voice of Reason said:

But it is my experience in real life that it is the younger people that are more likely to employ that sort of language 

In my experience yes generally, but not so much the C word. Its a bit non PC these days.

[James Blonde]

It's been said that this is one of the parts of the Mersey that silts up the worst, so we should expect a massive dredging bill every year. 

[Mercenary]

2 hours ago, Happier diner said:

If this is the case then you are of course correct and I made this point some posts back. 

The key question for me is: at what stage did the DOI engage the services of an expert consulting engineer?

If it was after the project started (and we were committed) then that would be negligent. It's unlikely that would be the case but you never know.

If it was from the start then it's hard to be really too critical of the DOI. It would be the case that they had been let down by their engineering expertise and the designer.

The DOI remain accountable and perhaps should be pursuing those would have been paid to be the experts for some consequential costs of their incompetence. 

I would be surprised if the DOI did do the feasibility, site investigation and pre design work.

 

The difficulty is you can't really pursue a consultant for the cost of additional works even if they did not exercise reasonable skill and care putting the design, estimate or bill of quantities together.

 

You can perhaps pursue them for the design fee or if there's demonstrable re-work this could trigger liability, but if it's just 'extra work' that was not picked up which would always have been required, then the client would ultimately have to pay for this.

 

Post contract award you are obviously losing competitive pricing and you will be up against QSs trying to justify excessive uplifts, but there is no way to demonstrate this as a loss or damage.

[John Wright]

25 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Yes but that sort of language puts off younger people joining (in my view) this forum and wouldn't be tolerated in many forums that I know of.

I have lobbied @John Wright a few times and to be fair he does discourage it....but doesn't ban it. 

It’s not my decision. It’d be collegiate. I’ve no idea how anyone would draw up, and keep up to date, a list of banned words.

Didn't we have criminal trials about prissy Victorian censorship. Lawrence and Lady Chatterly spring to mind, as well as Whitehouse and James Kirkup?

And when we do suspend a serial offender, after warning, for gratuitous objectionable word usage ( often based on context rather than the actual word), we get hassled and aggro.

[Roger Mexico]

1 hour ago, Kopek said:

A good test is, would you say that in front of your Wife and Family???

Surely the standard test is whether it is something "you would even wish your wife or servants to read"?

[The Voice of Reason]

2 minutes ago, John Wright said:

It’s not my decision. It’d be collegiate. I’ve no idea how anyone would draw up, and keep up to date, a list of banned words.

Didn't we have criminal trials about prissy Victorian censorship. Lawrence and Lady Chatterly spring to mind, as well as Whitehouse and James Kirkup?

And when we do suspend a serial offender, after warning, for gratuitous objectionable word usage ( often based on context rather than the actual word), we get hassled and aggro.

Yes but doesn’t hassle and aggro come with the territory John?

[Happier diner]

16 minutes ago, John Wright said:

It’s not my decision. It’d be collegiate. I’ve no idea how anyone would draw up, and keep up to date, a list of banned words.

Didn't we have criminal trials about prissy Victorian censorship. Lawrence and Lady Chatterly spring to mind, as well as Whitehouse and James Kirkup?

And when we do suspend a serial offender, after warning, for gratuitous objectionable word usage ( often based on context rather than the actual word), we get hassled and aggro.

Surely you have the power of discretion to make a decision about what is excessively offensive. 

[quilp]

21 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Surely the standard test is whether it is something "you would even wish your wife or servants to read"?

The Keeler judge. Old-school, upper class curmudgeon.

[quilp]

13 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Surely you have the power of discretion to make a decision about what is excessively offensive. 

It's just the one word you're objecting to here, isn't it? Which word is it? 

[John Wright]

19 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Surely you have the power of discretion to make a decision about what is excessively offensive. 

We aren’t the taste police. 

[John Wright]

14 minutes ago, quilp said:

The Keeler judge. Old-school, upper class curmudgeon.

Prosecuting counsel. The judge was Sir Anthony Hawke.

[Gladys]

38 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Yes but doesn’t hassle and aggro come with the territory John?

Why should it? Its a voluntary, unpaid role which carries with it more shit than you can imagine.  Why should the mods put themselves in a position to face more?