The Marine Le Pen thread

[woolley]

You are now doing exactly the same thing as I've described. A perfect illustration of what is happening. Anyone who is anti-eu, anti-globalisation, is patriotic and is against mass immigration because they can see it will be a disaster must be an extremist and a member of the BNP or National Front.

As Chinahand said, it is an extremely complex mix of views across the spectrum, but many people like you are only prepared to engage in the narrow part of the spectrum that has been "acceptable" throughout their lives. As a result, since pressing the "racist" button has ceased to be quite so effective, your only recourse is to put your fingers in your ears, shut your eyes tight and scream "LIBERALS". Yes, of course it is scary. Scary because you have ignored these issues for decades and would be happy to go on doing so until the destruction of Western society as we know it.

[llap]

You could begin by taking your head out of your "liberal" arse and accept that people have legitimate grievances which lead them to so-called "right wing" parties. 

[RIchard Britten]

20 minutes ago, woolley said:

You are now doing exactly the same thing as I've described. A perfect illustration of what is happening. Anyone who is anti-eu, anti-globalisation, is patriotic and is against mass immigration because they can see it will be a disaster must be an extremist and a member of the BNP or National Front.

But they go much further than the "cute and fluffy" version of right wing that you describe.

You wilfully ignore the hate crimes committed by these groups and give it legitimacy by wrapping it up in "patriotism".

Quote

...your only recourse is to put your fingers in your ears, shut your eyes tight and scream "LIBERALS".

Strange.  I was going to say the same thing about you. 

When in doubt...blame liberals.

[RIchard Britten]

23 minutes ago, woolley said:

 ...because they can see it will be a disaster...

You mean they want it to be a disaster because then it would justify their small minded hate as directed by the red tops to distract them from the ones who are making their lives that little bit shittier (i.e. governments and big business).

They can't see that it will be a disaster.  No-one can.

[woolley]

10 minutes ago, RIchard Britten said:

You mean they want it to be a disaster because then it would justify their small minded hate as directed by the red tops to distract them from the ones who are making their lives that little bit shittier (i.e. governments and big business).

They can't see that it will be a disaster.  No-one can.

They can. You can't. That's the whole problem. Right there. They do not WANT it to ba a disaster. They did not WANT any of the policies that created the situation in the first place.

[RIchard Britten]

40 minutes ago, woolley said:

They can. You can't. That's the whole problem. Right there. They do not WANT it to ba a disaster. They did not WANT any of the policies that created the situation in the first place.

Are you going to tell me next weeks lottery tickets or should I ask them?

What time limit are we putting on this "disaster" you keep prophesising?

[Chinahand]

Woolley, if you stopped all immigration to the UK today is it too late?  Is our society still destined to collapse because of your enemy within?

Just dealing with now do you really have some dystopian vision of Britain.

This is the core difference - I basically see a flawed, but vibrant, hard working diverse society.  You seem to see a dying, cancer-infested culture which needs to be rescued by banning Johnnie Foreigner and ... what ... returning those already here to whence they came?  And what is your criteria for returning them - Islamic heritage, visits to the Mosque more than once a month, a skill in plumbing, picking fruit and vegetables or working in animal processing?

That is Le Penn's rhetoric - the foreigner is the problem.  At least let's acknowledge that.  And if you believe they are - genuinely what do you expect to happen next?

[RIchard Britten]

I wonder if woolley has read the Turner Diaries...

[woolley]

When I read comments like the above, it is clear to me that the posters have no experience whatsoever of the everyday experience of those who live with the consequences of the policies of the past 60 years and more recently. The policymakers are a little like those you speak of Richard, who send others to fight their wars whilst themselves remaining well out of harm's way. A politician, a lord or a judge who lives on a country estate or in a gated community has no concept of what it is to live on the boundary of an Asian enclave and a "white trash" area who indulge in regular skirmishes between periods of quiet, uneasy, tense disdain for each other's way of life. The reality does not impinge on the cosy lives of the privileged. They see the rural England of 80 years ago, and the cosmopolitan city centres and ask what the problem is. Many of us know better.

The foreigner per se is not the problem. It's the self-hating liberal that's the problem. Has been for the past sixty years. Those in power who have subsumed their own culture to accommodate and excuse barbaric practices brought in among aliens who, in the interests of all humanity, should never have been brought to Europe in massive numbers. Why did we do that? Too late to ask now because the prime movers behind it are all dead. Did they never learn the harrowing experiences of the Reconquista? Or perhaps they thought that everyone is too civilised now to have a re-run? When the chips are down, human nature remains unchanged.

I've read the Turner Diaries. Not sure I got to the end. Bit contrived. Nothing special I thought.

 

[P.K.]

I'm a liberal and I don't hate myself at all.

I do revile all the tory boys who completely ignore eg the rising numbers of children living in poverty and just vote with their wallet.

But hey, as a liberal I 've always held the moral high ground.

Which means the rest hold the moral low ground.

You must be so proud...

[Tarne]

ROFLMAO at PK. "I hold the moral high ground so I'm right!" 

Jesus christ manxforums, I wish there was a "Shit Manx Forums Says" subforum

 

[manxman1980]

woolley - I agree that there is an issue with the 'elite' who have no engagement with day to day issues but that has been the case for centuries and not just the last 60 years.  My experience of living in the UK is not as bad as most people portray and I have not always lived in affluent areas.  In most cases people are just trying to make the best of their lives.  There have been a few "no-go" areas but these have generally been council estates where there are issues with drink and drugs or other economically deprived areas.  These have not been Asian enclaves.  

As for those in power importing barbaric practices from overseas, the history of the UK contributed to that.  The British Empire spanned so much of the world and we imported slaves, and workers from all over that empire to do the menial jobs, the horrible grotty ones that no one else would do.  When the Empire broke up a lot chose to remain, unsure of a future in their home countries, and others desperately tried to get to the UK (e.g. Kenya).  I do not profess to be well read on the subject but even France has the same issues with a crumbling empire.  Even recently French Algerians were subject to racism (see the French National Football team for examples).  

The freedom of movement for EU nationals is not the issue.  The issue is illegal immigration and overstaying visas and that is not going to change because the UK leaves the EU.  It will remain a problem, especially if the UK promotes itself as being a land of opportunity free from the rule of the EU.  People will want to go there, to try and make a better life.  Do you blame them? 

I would certainly not want to live in dear of prosecution because of my beliefs (or lack of them), because of my sexuality, or place of birth.  I would not want to live in a war torn country and I sure as hell would not want to bring children up there.  I would seek to get away by whatever means to have a better life and better opportunities.  

 

[P.K.]

2 minutes ago, Tarne said:

ROFLMAO at PK. "I hold the moral high ground so I'm right!" 

Jesus christ manxforums, I wish there was a "Shit Manx Forums Says" subforum

 

Not right.

Just care about the weak and vulnerable in our society.

If you think that's funny, as you clearly do, then frankly you're not the sort of person I want anything to do with. You're clearly all about self.

You have some harsh lessons to learn...

[woolley]

27 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Not right.

Just care about the weak and vulnerable in our society.

If you think that's funny, as you clearly do, then frankly you're not the sort of person I want anything to do with. You're clearly all about self.

You have some harsh lessons to learn...

So what do you do about it other than whining on here?

Liberals do not have the monopoly in caring for others. You don't raise the levels of society by throwing ever more money at it because there are far more fundamental problems at work that are driving it. People have to be motivated not cosseted. It's you who has the harsh lessons to learn and you don't even realise it. You only think that you have the moral high ground. Actually, you don't.

[P.K.]

24 minutes ago, woolley said:

So what do you do about it other than whining on here?

Liberals do not have the monopoly in caring for others. You don't raise the levels of society by throwing ever more money at it because there are far more fundamental problems at work that are driving it. People have to be motivated not cosseted. It's you who has the harsh lessons to learn and you don't even realise it. You only think that you have the moral high ground. Actually, you don't.

So you know all about all the voluntary stuff I' ve done over the years?

Errr don' t think so somehow!

Stop judging others by your own moral standards. Some, like me, not only care about others but actually do something about it.

Unlike you I suspect.

I will not vote Labour because, as you alluded to, their holistic approach to social welfare.

Because of my voluntary work I don't have any harsh lessons to learn. So less of the insults tory boy...