Andy Onchan Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 39 minutes ago, snowman said: you obviously have no idea how major airlines work Actually I do..... but not pax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 9 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said: In which case we really shouldn't moan that we've not been paid. End of. Well in the past the suspicion was that airlines had been allowed to build up big bills before going bust and that the civil servants running the airport should have been more diligent. I'm not sure that this was the case here. The trouble is that we know that the DoI (indirectly) misinformed Tynwald about having security for the amounts owing, so we don't know what else they might have got wrong. We know accurate financial management isn't much of a feature down at the Airport. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTailT Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) From what I know, DoI were consulted with one of the 'Big 5' around 3 weeks before the collapsea and advised that they may be exposed to losses and that the collapse was looking likely. DoI insisted that Gov here and in the UK would prop up Flybe to keep them going and that they would be able to secure the assets to cover any liabilities if needed, so they didn't bother to plan for a Plan B nor for the collapse properly due to that. It's harldy unusual for DoI to mismanage a situation, let's be honest. Edited June 11, 2020 by NoTailT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 A more interesting set of questions might be about how much Patient Transfers owed Flybe For flights taken and not taken. Possibly there could be a set off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hedgehog Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 27 minutes ago, John Wright said: A more interesting set of questions might be about how much Patient Transfers owed Flybe For flights taken and not taken. Possibly there could be a set off. You just know that being different departments they will have already fired out a cheque to the liquidators. 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Newbie Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 On 6/9/2020 at 7:20 PM, b4mbi said: I had to look up snafu, but it fits!! I recall earlier in this thread stating that i was impressed that lessons had been learned after alf saying in tynwald that a lien had been placed on the aircraft to secure monies owing. What happened?! Or did I dream that? Well as it turns out they didn’t even own the plane we impounded. So it was all a waste of time and money. http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=56118 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dog's Dangly Bits Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 It was the right thing to do at the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 I hesitate to use the phrase "the next time" but it does at least send a message of intent to owners that Government may have learned a lesson from the past ! It really is time for an adult discussion about open skies and the merry go round that has been airline operations here for many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 There isn’t a discussion to be had, adult or otherwise, about open skies. It’s the reality. It operates in every territory the IOM has flight connections with. We are lucky anyone flies here at all. We don’t need to be making it more difficult to attract airlines to serve our routes. As for the merry go round it’s not something caused by open skies. There has been instability since day 1. As many companies coming and going before open skies as after. There have been dozens and dozens. Some for one season only. Dating back to immediately post WW2. The periods of stability have been Manx Airlines (2) and the last 20 years of Flybe and later easyJet. The alternative is a state owned operator. Guernsey and Aurigny, at an annual cost of £7-10 million. That’s even worse than losing a few £100,000 on landing fees once every 10 years. The possibility of a bank guarantee or bond or blocked deposit for outstanding fees won’t help. No one would operate it. No one would deposit it. Imagine the conversation between AR or DrJS and an airline executive, “ before you bring a passenger here we need £2million to cover two months APD and landing fees”. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTailT Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, John Wright said: There isn’t a discussion to be had, adult or otherwise, about open skies. It’s the reality. It operates in every territory the IOM has flight connections with. We are lucky anyone flies here at all. We don’t need to be making it more difficult to attract airlines to serve our routes. As for the merry go round it’s not something caused by open skies. There has been instability since day 1. As many companies coming and going before open skies as after. There have been dozens and dozens. Some for one season only. Dating back to immediately post WW2. The periods of stability have been Manx Airlines (2) and the last 20 years of Flybe and later easyJet. The alternative is a state owned operator. Guernsey and Aurigny, at an annual cost of £7-10 million. That’s even worse than losing a few £100,000 on landing fees once every 10 years. The possibility of a bank guarantee or bond or blocked deposit for outstanding fees won’t help. No one would operate it. No one would deposit it. Imagine the conversation between AR or DrJS and an airline executive, “ before you bring a passenger here we need £2million to cover two months APD and landing fees”. Jackpot. Just to put the quakers in to you JW - I heard the other day that a certain travel business on the Island with interests in the CI's too is working with Aurigny to get IOM Gov to buy-in to Aurigny and it would serve both Guernsey AND the Isle of Man. The cost? IOM Gov would have to agree to underwrite £4-5m of losses per year. I hope to god that Skelly and Alfie aren't even entertaining this. Edited June 13, 2020 by NoTailT 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dog's Dangly Bits Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 They wont. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Newbie Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 3 hours ago, NoTailT said: Just to put the quakers in to you JW - I heard the other day that a certain travel business on the Island with interests in the CI's too is working with Aurigny to get IOM Gov to buy-in to Aurigny and it would serve both Guernsey AND the Isle of Man. The cost? IOM Gov would have to agree to underwrite £4-5m of losses per year. I hope to god that Skelly and Alfie aren't even entertaining this. I’d be happy for them to explore that. There might not be any private airlines flying at the end of all this and therefore we might actually need to set something up ourselves. BA alone is set to lay off 12,000 people. The air sector has been decimated and many airlines simply won’t be flying by the end of the year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah 01 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Quite agree. Regular, reliable flights to meet the needs of the Island are rerquired - not left to the 'largesse' of easyjet's schedulers who might deign to provide a service if an extra rotation can be tagged on to their day's flying programme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTailT Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Agree with you both! Not sure buying in to Aurigny is the answer though.. its a mess. Will cost more than any other option I imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted June 17, 2020 Author Share Posted June 17, 2020 FlyBe still causing some issues even though they're not operating: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-53076806 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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