Flybe nosedives on profits warning

[ellanvannin2010]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

Except they aren’t handing out cash refunds. Not if they can help it. I’ve just got Easy refunds for two pre Covid cancellations on 15/16 February. 9 flights in April, they’ve confirmed refunds but cash hasn’t hit my card yet.

Ba are just as bad. In January I booked a long weekend in London in mid December via City. Couple months ago BA announced they were dropping the LCY route at end September. I’ve heard nothing, cancellation or refund. 

I checked and they are offering the flights, but via Dublin. 8 hours out, with 6 hour stop over, and 12 hours back with 9hrs30 mins stop over.

Today I rang. 30 mins to get through. Special number for assisted passengers.  They are contacting to confirm if we will accept the new routing and timings. But in date order. They’re up to end August flight changes. And no, they can’t refund whilst I was on the phone. I have to wait until they get through to notifying December customers, which may be in early October.

Choices. Gatwick and Gatwick Express to Victoria? Or Liverpool and train to Euston? Choices.
 

 

Interesting what BA have told you, I have 8 trips booked through LCY between end September and December, none as yet cancelled or any notification although some of the onward connecting flights  have been cancelled for an October trip. I will just have to wait and see although all hotels booked are on free cancellation rates.

I have found BA good to refund so far via phone and even easier via Twitter. Been all  back on my card within 3 days, except for a complicated itinerary that had been altered before so had to go for manual refund.

Easyjet have been poor up to now but I am sure the refund will eventually appear, saying in an email that the flight had not yet been cancelled when their timetable clearly showed no flights on that day whilst trying to pressurise me with a short time limit into accepting a voucher is pretty poor practice in my opinion.

[snowman]

An airline run by IOM Government would I am sure endeavour to hand out refunds as expected. It would politically be a difficult issue. The point is that airlines are running at huge losses and a government run airline would run at a huge loss. There's better things to spend the money on like health.

[Roger Mexico]

On 7/16/2020 at 3:15 PM, TheTeapot said:

Right I've had a think, and having seen this it is clear this must be a terrible idea

 

Don't worry Rob has already changed his mind:

Quote

 

New DOI member against national airline proposal

The politician in charge of ports doesn't support the idea of a Manx national airline.

Rob Callister was appointed to a third government role on Friday, moving into the Department of Infrastructure on an interim basis.

With flights between Ronaldsway and Guernsey starting this week - operated by Aurigny, which is funded by the Guernsey government - some have said the Isle of Man should bring back a state-owned airline.

Among them is former Manx Airlines boss Terry Liddiard, who was previously against the move, but now believes the time is right to revisit the idea.

However, Chief Minister Howard Quayle said he would rather see an external airline underwritten by the Manx government.

Something no doubt completely unrelated to that last sentence.  I have the horrible feeling that they think even a national airline wouldn't lose quite enough money, so they would prefer a solution with even less control that was even more expensive.

The truth is that no one knows what the airline market will be like in six months time; no one knows what the leisure demand will be and from where; no one knows if there will even be a business market and how it will operate[1].  We can be sure though that there will be a lot of spare capacity among existing airlines and airports.  I can't see the purpose of suddenly becoming a seller when there's a buyer's market.

 

[1]  The one certainty is that there will be lots of 'businessmen' proclaiming that there has to an ultra-frequent service to [X] destination - which they end up never actually using or if they do complain loudly if it costs more that £20 return.

[Andy Onchan]

2 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

Don't worry Rob has already changed his mind:

Something no doubt completely unrelated to that last sentence.  I have the horrible feeling that they think even a national airline wouldn't lose quite enough money, so they would prefer a solution with even less control that was even more expensive.

The truth is that no one knows what the airline market will be like in six months time; no one knows what the leisure demand will be and from where; no one knows if there will even be a business market and how it will operate[1].  We can be sure though that there will be a lot of spare capacity among existing airlines and airports.  I can't see the purpose of suddenly becoming a seller when there's a buyer's market.

 

[1]  The one certainty is that there will be lots of 'businessmen' proclaiming that there has to an ultra-frequent service to [X] destination - which they end up never actually using or if they do complain loudly if it costs more that £20 return.

He has form for changing his mind.

[Utah 01]

'The truth is that no one knows what the airline market will be like in six months time'

It doesn't matter whether it's 6 months time, 12 months time or in 2 years, unlees 'we' are proactive now we will continue to have to make-do with the slops offered by whoever deigns to provide an air service (to fit in with their scheduling) rather than the our providing a service to our island community.  Late-night services to London and once-a-week services to anywhere that airline X needs to fill a slot are not good enough to meet the needs of the traveling public and, hopefully,  the island's recovering economy.

Aircraft are ten-a-penny at present and can be picked up for as much; airports are ghost-towns and need traffic.  If the government is going to act in the long-term interest of the Island's transport links, now is the time to act.

 

[woolley]

26 minutes ago, Utah 01 said:

'The truth is that no one knows what the airline market will be like in six months time'

One way to make its demise a cast iron certainty would be the IOM Government entering the market. Kiss of death for sure.

[Banker]

Just heard easyJet have pulled all flights until IOM open borders so that will scupper a lot who did want to go away & then self isolate.

must be a worry if they will return with all the cuts and no clear plan on borders from IOM

[John Wright]

21 minutes ago, Banker said:

Just heard easyJet have pulled all flights until IOM open borders so that will scupper a lot who did want to go away & then self isolate.

must be a worry if they will return with all the cuts and no clear plan on borders from IOM

Not quite. They announced they’ve cancelled until 31/8 and are taking new bookings for Gatwick and Liverpool flights from 1/9 onward. That’s realistic. 6 weeks away. Time to review if we go down to stage 3 and 2.

If UK infection figures come down the changes will be quick, especially if we don’t get any cases in the community from stage 4.

[Banker]

33 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Not quite. They announced they’ve cancelled until 31/8 and are taking new bookings for Gatwick and Liverpool flights from 1/9 onward. That’s realistic. 6 weeks away. Time to review if we go down to stage 3 and 2.

If UK infection figures come down the changes will be quick, especially if we don’t get any cases in the community from stage 4.

But it's not clear what easyjet definition of borders opening is, it could be stage 1 before they reopen. They reinstated Jersey once they fully opened borders.

also Guernsey starting business tunnels next week with no quarantine as next step to opening borders.

https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/07/21/business-tunnels-from-next-tuesday/

Edited July 21, 2020 by Banker

[John Wright]

8 minutes ago, Banker said:

But it's not clear what easyjet definition of borders opening is, it could be stage 1 before they reopen. They reinstated Jersey once they fully opened borders.

also Guernsey starting business tunnels next week with no quarantine as next step to opening borders.

https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/07/21/business-tunnels-from-next-tuesday/

It can hardly be clear when there are multiple unknowns/certainties.

Easyjet clearly makes money on its pre Covid load factor. The planes are slotted in between other, much longer rotations. Average rotations are 5 hours plus. IOM LPL is 90 mins. Gatwick is 2.45. It’s all part of flying the plane 18-20 hours a day. Cheaper to be in air than parked on the ground.

[Banker]

6 minutes ago, John Wright said:

It can hardly be clear when there are multiple unknowns/certainties.

Easyjet clearly makes money on its pre Covid load factor. The planes are slotted in between other, much longer rotations. Average rotations are 5 hours plus. IOM LPL is 90 mins. Gatwick is 2.45. It’s all part of flying the plane 18-20 hours a day. Cheaper to be in air than parked on the ground.

Totally agree John, it's just the uncertainty that's holding everyone back from booking. Do you think the Guernsey business tunnels idea will push CoMin to come up with something similar? although not sure if any flights would be available do do it.

[John Wright]

5 minutes ago, Banker said:

Totally agree John, it's just the uncertainty that's holding everyone back from booking. Do you think the Guernsey business tunnels idea will push CoMin to come up with something similar? although not sure if any flights would be available do do it.

Well, we’ve got City, Liverpool and Manchester, every day bar Saturday. Nearly 200 seats each way every day. What do you think demand is?

Do we need business tunnels?

[Banker]

9 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Well, we’ve got City, Liverpool and Manchester, every day bar Saturday. Nearly 200 seats each way every day. What do you think demand is?

Do we need business tunnels?

The idea of business tunnels is no quarantine for those using it, so yes I think there will be demand for face to face meetings in IOM if no quarantine involved.

[John Wright]

7 minutes ago, Banker said:

The idea of business tunnels is no quarantine for those using it, so yes I think there will be demand for face to face meetings in IOM if no quarantine involved.

If it’s only for the next 6 weeks I think we can probably manage with video conferencing.

[NoTailT]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

If it’s only for the next 6 weeks I think we can probably manage with video conferencing.

Well I mean.. it wont be. Next phase means we can bring business people, family and friends so long as they isolate for 2 weeks. The word I heard today was that Phase 2 not likely until October. So that means no unrestricted business travel until October, which coincides with when most of the banks have their staff WFH until.