Flybe nosedives on profits warning

[John Wright]

2 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

Other than being a 'Frequent flyer' I admit to having virtually zero knowledge of your industry and hence I bow to your vastly superior knowledge - what you post makes sense to me.

But I have to ask one question - How/why on earth did a small airline serving 80,000 people need to grow to be 'the second largest employer after IOMG????

Empire building? Was that its downfall?

Definitely empire building. But many routes were not from or to the island, but the planes were maintained here at its engineering base. The IOM model worked so well that the owners used it to serve and operate out of other hubs, like Cardiff Wales. Lots of flights fed into British Midland, commonality of ownership.

There wasn’t a downfall as such, it had value, slots at Heathrow, which led to its sale and to BA stripping them out. 

[snowman]

Report from today

 

The chief executive, Jonathan Hinkles, said: "Loganair has always applied at Heathrow for slots to cover regional services, reflecting its intent to increase UK regional connectivity.  

“We have flown – earlier this year, through lockdown – from Isle of Man to Heathrow and there are active discussions about restoring this, and other routes, into Heathrow.”

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/easyjet-flights-heathrow-gatwick-slots-b1724885.html

[NoTailT]

3 minutes ago, snowman said:

Report from today

 

The chief executive, Jonathan Hinkles, said: "Loganair has always applied at Heathrow for slots to cover regional services, reflecting its intent to increase UK regional connectivity.  

“We have flown – earlier this year, through lockdown – from Isle of Man to Heathrow and there are active discussions about restoring this, and other routes, into Heathrow.”

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/easyjet-flights-heathrow-gatwick-slots-b1724885.html

It's a report, he's speaking like a mouthpiece should. You forgot to quote one thing:

Quote

But his carrier was also rejected. Of the thousands of slots that dozens of airlines bid for, only four were granted: to the Chinese carrier, Shenzhen Airlines.

Heathrow airport have no real control over who is allowed to fly there. ACL are responsible for allocating the slots and the fact is, lots of people wanted the slots this time around and very few were granted, including much bigger players than Loganair.

Unless Loganair puts its hand in to its pockets and buys slots - like other airlines would do - it's not going to happen. Unless of course they're trying to get IOM PLC to buy the slots for them...

Plus they only flew to Heathrow because BA paid them to, as City was closed. I don't get this obsession with making Hinkles and Loganair seem like pals of the Isle of Man, they really aren't.

Edited November 18, 2020 by NoTailT

[kevster]

1 hour ago, madmanxpilot said:

Also, how many people have been successful in getting their money back for flights which EZY had to cancel because of the Pandemic?

Got my cancelled flight refunded 4 weeks after the flight date

[tetchtyke]

Heathrow used to have a number of ringfenced slots for domestic. These have had many owners, BMI then more recently Virgin Little Red and then Flybe, who were using one of them for last year's LHR flights.  I am surprised that Loganair haven't been able to tap into those, unless they have now lost their ring fencing.

I don't think anyone is claiming Loganair are more special than other airlines. But the idea there's a massive queue of airlines fighting for our money and, somehow, the IOMG don't realise this, is fanciful.

[NoTailT]

1 minute ago, tetchtyke said:

Heathrow used to have a number of ringfenced slots for domestic. These have had many owners, BMI then more recently Virgin Little Red and then Flybe, who were using one of them for last year's LHR flights.  I am surprised that Loganair haven't been able to tap into those, unless they have now lost their ring fencing.

I don't think anyone is claiming Loganair are more special than other airlines. But the idea there's a massive queue of airlines fighting for our money and, somehow, the IOMG don't realise this, is fanciful.

The slots belong(ed) to BA/BMI and when the merger took place, BA/IAG had to either use them for domestic or offer them up for alternative use. Since then, BA has now expanded its own domestic network to Leeds, Newquay and a few other places. They're grandfathered slots that still have a degree of ringfencing around their use.

Now, until RWY3 at Heathrow and the protectionist nature of the slots, there's no hope unless someone like BA decides to service the route.

I heard from someone (who I'd trust on the topic here) that other approaches have been made by Stobart & Eastern, but Lord Jez at the airport is very protective of the Loganair relationship and wasn't prepared to play ball with them.

[madmanxpilot]

Also, it is my understanding that in 'normal' times, the ATR aircraft is not permitted to operate into LHR because of its low approach speed profile.

 

[NoTailT]

1 minute ago, madmanxpilot said:

Also, it is my understanding that in 'normal' times, the ATR aircraft is not permitted to operate into LHR because of its low approach speed profile.

 

Not that I doubt your knowledge on this, I know better.. but it's not that it isn't allowed, but there are financial penalties for doing so due to the additional separation required.

[Lxxx]

13 minutes ago, tetchtyke said:

Heathrow used to have a number of ringfenced slots for domestic. These have had many owners, BMI then more recently Virgin Little Red and then Flybe, who were using one of them for last year's LHR flights.  I am surprised that Loganair haven't been able to tap into those, unless they have now lost their ring fencing.

I don't think anyone is claiming Loganair are more special than other airlines. But the idea there's a massive queue of airlines fighting for our money and, somehow, the IOMG don't realise this, is fanciful.

I don't think anyone is saying that on here. Maybe you're imagining it.

[madmanxpilot]

11 minutes ago, NoTailT said:

Not that I doubt your knowledge on this, I know better.. but it's not that it isn't allowed, but there are financial penalties for doing so due to the additional separation required.

Prohibited by the airline's accountants then 😉

[snowman]

42 minutes ago, madmanxpilot said:

Also, it is my understanding that in 'normal' times, the ATR aircraft is not permitted to operate into LHR because of its low approach speed profile.

 

i used flybe heathrow in summer 2019 

i think it was a Q400

[NoTailT]

29 minutes ago, madmanxpilot said:

Prohibited by the airline's accountants then 😉

Jackpot.

But look at London City, £2.5k per landing/departure combined. Irrespective of whether it has 50 seats or 70 seats. Ultimately if you're taking a stand up, that's the cost.

[madmanxpilot]

25 minutes ago, snowman said:

i used flybe heathrow in summer 2019 

i think it was a Q400

Yes - it will have been - it's only during the Covid period that Loganair operated the ATR to/from LHR as LCY was closed. LHR was also very quiet!

[John Wright]

34 minutes ago, snowman said:

i used flybe heathrow in summer 2019 

i think it was a Q400

They were slot sitting for 6 months. 

[quilp]

28 minutes ago, John Wright said:

They were slot sitting for 6 months. 

Try saying that after 10 gins...