Flybe nosedives on profits warning

[snowman]

2 minutes ago, ellanvannin2010 said:

You must be very tolerant of traveling at all sorts of odd times of day or not traveling at all on days they cba to run a service.

I am surprised as it is not always obvious you are so tolerant

 

0645 is an odd inconvenient time of the day to depart in my opinion. But I'm not banging the drum about it and saying based flights are crap cos they depart s o very early.

 

What suits some people doesn't suit others.

[Roger Mexico]

7 minutes ago, asitis said:

Had it not been for the lusting of certain members of Government to see the orange fin of EZY here, again I refer to a situation without Covid, management were aware of the conditions which had to apply for the Flybe base to remain. However the arrival of EZY and the loss of based aircraft led to the exodus of Flybe, the exodus of engineering, cabin and flight crew and lots of income tax and spend in the economy going elsewhere.

Yes, the arrival of easyJet in 2010 was so devastating that Flybe almost immediately closed down their base . . . in Summer 2020. 

Except that didn't happen as the collapse of the whole company intervened.  No doubt cause entirely by Mrs Costain deciding to use easyJet to pop over to see her sister in Bootle.

Even that news item from September 2019 doesn't mention competition as being the reason, but Flybe's switch to a different operating model.

[ellanvannin2010]

2 minutes ago, snowman said:

 

0645 is an odd inconvenient time of the day to depart in my opinion. But I'm not banging the drum about it and saying based flights are crap cos they depart s o very early.

 

What suits some people doesn't suit others.

I agree, yet easyjet fly to the Isle of Man from LPL and BFS at that sort of time

[Scotty]

2 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Yes, the arrival of easyJet in 2010 was so devastating that Flybe almost immediately closed down their base . . . in Summer 2020. 

Except that didn't happen as the collapse of the whole company intervened.  No doubt cause entirely by Mrs Costain deciding to use easyJet to pop over to see her sister in Bootle.

Even that news item from September 2019 doesn't mention competition as being the reason, but Flybe's switch to a different operating model.

OMG

[ellanvannin2010]

2 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Yes, the arrival of easyJet in 2010 was so devastating that Flybe almost immediately closed down their base . . . in Summer 2020. 

Except that didn't happen as the collapse of the whole company intervened.  No doubt cause entirely by Mrs Costain deciding to use easyJet to pop over to see her sister in Bootle.

Even that news item from September 2019 doesn't mention competition as being the reason, but Flybe's switch to a different operating model.

You are not normally wrong but they actually closed their IOM base in March 2014. Reopened operated by Stobart few years later then Flybe again

[asitis]

Flybe closed because there were too few aircraft based here to be considered as a base by the new management. This was after we had lost two based aircraft, as the routes were no longer viable due to dwindling passenger numbers. I am told the base qualification was arbitrary, and across the board. From memory I believe four was the number of aircraft which they considered for a base qualification, we had five then three.

Actually this historical perspective is now not relevant at all, as it is without doubt a very different landscape and it will be interesting to see where we end up !

Edited November 18, 2020 by asitis

[Roger Mexico]

9 minutes ago, ellanvannin2010 said:

You are not normally wrong but they actually closed their IOM base in March 2014. Reopened operated by Stobart few years later then Flybe again

But even the 2014 closure was part of a wider programme of bases being cut.  And the fact that Stobart took over pretty quickly (and were intending to do similar in 2020) suggests that the impact of easyJet wasn't as devastating as some seem to think.  (Indeed the multiple switches rather makes me suspect that that start-up subsidies may have been involved).

[ellanvannin2010]

18 minutes ago, asitis said:

Flybe closed because there were too few aircraft based here to be considered as a base by the new management. This was after we had lost two based aircraft, as the routes were no longer viable due to dwindling passenger numbers. I am told the base qualification was arbitrary, and across the board. From memory I believe four was the number of aircraft which they considered for a base qualification, we had five then three.

Actually this historical perspective is now not relevant at all, as it is without doubt a very different landscape and it will be interesting to see where we end up !

Don’t think they ever had 5 based aircraft, pretty sure it was 4 with early departures to lgw, lpl,man, bhx.

Otherwise spot on

For a few years the only airline that actually operated its own flights to/from the IOM was EZY

Edited November 18, 2020 by ellanvannin2010

[madmanxpilot]

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Air travel has to be one of the most important facts of life here. What was  wrong with us being able to fly to Liverpool with easyJet for £20. ?

You'd need to get one of the first seats sold to get that price. The then the airline wouldn't see a penny of it because of APD. Simply loss leading fares to tempt business away from other carriers

They were, however, charging £470 one way to Liverpool in March. They'd be making a few quid on that even after paying the APD!

[asitis]

For whatever reasons, which I agree are debatable, we are back on the merry go round of operators coming and going, which has continued over the past thirty years. Some have left with little fanfare, others have left leaving trails of debt to us, and some leaving tragedy and embarrassment !

I am firmly of the belief that open skies has had a great influence on the commercial operation of the IOM, and imo in not a good way. Going forward I cannot see any operator putting its own resources (if they have any) into an operation here whilst the threat of another coming in and undercutting them or taking their passenger base is a possibility.

It certainly would be preferable to have aircraft based here, not just for morning convenience but for employment creation, with attendant benefits to the treasury (giving Government more money to waste LOL !) I for one think it was a huge mistake to allow engineering skills to have to leave the island.

Hopefully we can emerge onto sunlit uplands but won't hold my breath !

 

[John Wright]

21 minutes ago, asitis said:

For whatever reasons, which I agree are debatable, we are back on the merry go round of operators coming and going, which has continued over the past thirty years. Some have left with little fanfare, others have left leaving trails of debt to us, and some leaving tragedy and embarrassment !

I am firmly of the belief that open skies has had a great influence on the commercial operation of the IOM, and imo in not a good way. Going forward I cannot see any operator putting its own resources (if they have any) into an operation here whilst the threat of another coming in and undercutting them or taking their passenger base is a possibility.

It certainly would be preferable to have aircraft based here, not just for morning convenience but for employment creation, with attendant benefits to the treasury (giving Government more money to waste LOL !) I for one think it was a huge mistake to allow engineering skills to have to leave the island.

Hopefully we can emerge onto sunlit uplands but won't hold my breath !

 

We had that merry go round before open skies. BA has dipped in and out 4 times over 50 years. British Midland and Air UK couldn’t make a go in competition so Manx was formed.  That was private enterprise, not regulated, it was an effective monopoly, should never have got off the ground, but succeeded also because no one else even tried to muscle in because they knew the market was limited.

Apart from the Johnny come latelys of EuroManx, Manx2 and Emerald etc, going bust leaving debt, and Flybe recently,  plus tuppenny ha’penny outfits running odd aircraft to even odder destinations, we had instability all through the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s with airlines coming and going every year. Dan Air, Aer Lingus, Air UK, BEA, Cambrian, AND those are just the ones I can remember from flying from childhood to now.

[asitis]

21 minutes ago, John Wright said:

We had that merry go round before open skies. BA has dipped in and out 4 times over 50 years. British Midland and Air UK couldn’t make a go in competition so Manx was formed.  That was private enterprise, not regulated, it was an effective monopoly, should never have got off the ground, but succeeded also because no one else even tried to muscle in because they knew the market was limited.

Apart from the Johnny come latelys of EuroManx, Manx2 and Emerald etc, going bust leaving debt, and Flybe recently,  plus tuppenny ha’penny outfits running odd aircraft to even odder destinations, we had instability all through the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s with airlines coming and going every year. Dan Air, Aer Lingus, Air UK, BEA, Cambrian, AND those are just the ones I can remember from flying from childhood to now.

Agreed and it follows therefore that the time has come for some realism about our market size and what we can support and / or demand of an operator ! The pandemic has perhaps given us the opportunity for a reset commercially and to "learn the lessons" of the past. We need talented and strategic management not what we have now !

[John Wright]

38 minutes ago, asitis said:

Agreed and it follows therefore that the time has come for some realism about our market size and what we can support and / or demand of an operator ! The pandemic has perhaps given us the opportunity for a reset commercially and to "learn the lessons" of the past. We need talented and strategic management not what we have now !

It shows that regulation didn’t give stability and convenient times. 

It shows that if demand and market size justified someone always came along.

It doesn’t make a case to get rid of open skies.

 

[madmanxpilot]

What policy, if any, existed before the current official open skies policy? 

Edited November 19, 2020 by madmanxpilot

[John Wright]

1 hour ago, madmanxpilot said:

What policy, if any, existed before the current official open skies policy? 

None that I am aware of. There has always been a desperation to have someone, anyone, to add routes at almost any cost including a number of scammers or pie in the sky schemes such as  Charles Flynn's proposed Ellan Vannin Airlines to heavens knows who. 

And there were always two things top of then list Heathrow, and Jets