Explosion at Manchester Arena

[La Colombe]

Just now, La Colombe said:

My computer's always writing stuff that I disagree with. 

No it isn't. 

[homarus]

2 minutes ago, La Colombe said:

My computer's always writing stuff that I disagree with. 

Petty point scoring as usual Peirre  I can read you like a book , trouble is I've been reading the same book for the last 5 yrs and the only thing that changes periodically is your name.

Never mind that they charged another 4 islamic nutcases with attempted mass murder in Westminister a day or so back eh mate , as long as you can get your little snide remarks in .

  I do however agree with you up to a point  as  Mr S  says, up to about 96 Britain coped relatively well ,after that it's been a shambles.

 

 

[Mr. Sausages]

It's Gareth Southgate's fault.

[woody2]

5 minutes ago, homarus said:

Petty point scoring as usual Peirre  I can read you like a book , trouble is I've been reading the same book for the last 5 yrs and the only thing that changes periodically is your name.

Never mind that they charged another 4 islamic nutcases with attempted mass murder in Westminister a day or so back eh mate , as long as you can get your little snide remarks in .

  I do however agree with you up to a point  as  Mr S  says, up to about 96 Britain coped relatively well ,after that it's been a shambles.

 

 

british tolerance taken advantage of?

[the stinking enigma]

Yeah, that'll be it. But no more eh?

[homarus]

19 minutes ago, Mr. Sausages said:

It's Gareth Southgate's fault.

It was the Russians actually!

[twinkle]

1 hour ago, woody2 said:

british tolerance taken advantage of?

EXACTLY,and tony bliar and the black abbotess welcoming all and sundry from any fucking country on earth,WANKERS.

[Bobbie Bobster]

bliar, heh.

[llap]

All this negative news is really getting to me. I need to switch off and just tune it out, but can't. Even though I watch no television, listen to no radio, don't read any newspapers, I still seem to be inundated with a barrage of news and current events. I think I would like to go and live in seclusion in the outer Hebrides. 

[guzzi]

4 hours ago, Shake me up Judy said:

You could argue that to some extent the USA was largely successful with integration. A lot of that though was because, apart from the native Indians, there was no established national culture; and also the sheer size of the country meant plenty of room for expansion and settlement. Lots of problems with this argument of course but I think it's broadly true.    

I think you could argue that in respect of the integration of European immigrants, when Europe had plenty of poor and huddled masses.  Jews, Irish, Scots, Swedes, Italians etc. eventually forming a white ruling class. 

In respect of Native Americans, they failed utterly to give them a stake in the society they were building, in pursuit of a white, Christian 'manifest dstiny'.  On the contrary, they gave away their land to white homesteaders, and killed all the prey that the native people of the Great Plains relied on. Latterly, there are some tokens of respect and to some extent reparation, like gambling concessions and defined Native American areas.

And then, of course, slavery.  We still see evidence of a racially defined underclass in the US. Everywhere you go, you meet black folks doing the poorly paid service sector jobs. Serving your food, selling you your ticket, cleaning your hotel room.  You see shocking evidence that to the police, black lives are worth less than white lives. America has had a black president, sure.  But integrated, it is not. There's just a barely contained ceasefire between a mostly white middle class and a mostly black and Hispanic underclass.

 

[Max Power]

9 hours ago, mad_manx said:

AFAIK its half of the Irish population for the whole of the UK. 

It's difficult to get a proper figure to be fair, I read that we have over 4m Muslims in Britain now, England and Wales have 3.1m plus those in Scotland and NI so you are actually pretty close anyway. 

The Irish population is 1.8m in the North and 4.6 in the South, a total of 6.4m.

[John Wright]

4 hours ago, guzzi said:

I think you could argue that in respect of the integration of European immigrants, when Europe had plenty of poor and huddled masses.  Jews, Irish, Scots, Swedes, Italians etc. eventually forming a white ruling class. 

In respect of Native Americans, they failed utterly to give them a stake in the society they were building, in pursuit of a white, Christian 'manifest dstiny'.  On the contrary, they gave away their land to white homesteaders, and killed all the prey that the native people of the Great Plains relied on. Latterly, there are some tokens of respect and to some extent reparation, like gambling concessions and defined Native American areas.

And then, of course, slavery.  We still see evidence of a racially defined underclass in the US. Everywhere you go, you meet black folks doing the poorly paid service sector jobs. Serving your food, selling you your ticket, cleaning your hotel room.  You see shocking evidence that to the police, black lives are worth less than white lives. America has had a black president, sure.  But integrated, it is not. There's just a barely contained ceasefire between a mostly white middle class and a mostly black and Hispanic underclass.

 

Or was it illusory, and were there glass ceilings. No Catholic president until Kennedy - and he had to make public statements about the weight he'd give to the pope and his church. How many Jewish, Nordic or Italian presidents?

 

[Mr. Sausages]

British Pakistanis account for 3% of births.  And 30% of births with genetic defects. Most likely due to the tradition of cousin marriage.  Bit of a taboo subject though, getting into The Bell Curve territory.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/children/11723308/First-cousin-marriages-in-Pakistani-communities-leading-to-appalling-disabilities-among-children.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/7957808/700-children-born-with-genetic-disabilities-due-to-cousin-marriages-every-year.html

[guzzi]

12 hours ago, John Wright said:

Or was it illusory, and were there glass ceilings. No Catholic president until Kennedy - and he had to make public statements about the weight he'd give to the pope and his church. How many Jewish, Nordic or Italian presidents?

 

I was thinking about the owners of industry, Guggenheim, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt etc. Italian Americans are well represented in politics,  Fiorella La Guardia was mayor of NYC, for example. Presidents, admittedly are less diverse, but then that is a sample of only 45.

The other thing in my mind was the archetypal, American middle class.   Well educated, well rewarded and from a diverse lineage,  but with black and Hispanic people Under represented, and disproportionately part of the underclass that is left behind.

[John Wright]

Isn't that what always happens with immigration, as one wave replaces another and everyone moves one rung up the ladder and further out of the ghetto?

of course African Americans are a special case because of the weight of slavery.

But even with a small sample of presidents and Vice Presidents it's striking that it's predominantly Anglo white Protestant. One black, one Anglo Greek, and only two Catholics.

as for hispanics, when did Hispanic immigration big scale start? I think it was post WW2 from Puerto Rico, then Cuba in 1960's, then Mexico, then the rest of Latin, and later South America.