RIchard Britten Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 9 hours ago, Neil Down said: Just a thought, when I did my stint in N Ireland, whenever we captured/shot at/killed a member of the IRA not once did we refer to them as catholics. They were terrorists. So why is it okay to lump this murderous scummy gang together and label them muslims? Because the country needs an "enemy" to justify military and security spending on, and to allow the government to restrict our freedoms in the name of "security". The Troubles are effectively over (note I said effectively, in that the collective public doesn't care and the media all but ignores it now), the Cold War is over (sure we rattle our sabres at Russia occasionally but we don't have the military to stand up to them effectively) and AQ is all but forgotten (they just didn't get the funding and recognition at IS gets these days). So "Islam" (note not Islamic fundamentalist extremism, but an entire religious group) is the new bogey man. Its great, because the average idiot on the street cant tell the difference between a Muslim, Sihk, Hindu, etc so it basically creates an atmosphere of hate and fear of anyone who doesn't fit the "white" profile. It also doesn't matter if they are second/third generation British Muslims or refugees from a conflict we started/"helped in", they are now hated with equal vigour. And of course holding an entire religious group accountable for the actions of a handful (in comparison) is easy but extremely hypocritical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 27 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: So you think we ought to talk nicely to people who think they have their god's validation to kill you unless you accept their religion and way of life ? OK... So how has trying to bomb them into paste worked out so far? Maybe we just haven't used enough bombs? Or killed enough innocent people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 8 hours ago, wrighty said: But the latest terrorist attrocities by IS seem at least to be all about them trying to inflict their view of Islam on the rest of the world by killing those who don't follow. So for me at least, the comparison of IRA and IS is invalid. The IRA were political terrorists (or alternatively, by another view, freedom fighters) whereas IS are religious terrorists. Therefore labelling them as Muslims is valid, even though it doesn't tell the whole story.. I disagree. "You'll do what I want, because I say X is right (X being "my version of Islam" or "Ireland for the Irish"). If you don't agree to X I will kill you". Religion and politics are interchangeable (despite the so called separation of church and state.), both are used by those in power to exert control over the masses, to both maintain that power and extend the reach of that power. It is by no accident that most top tier politicians are quick to tell you about their "religious values" when their policies are as far from those so called values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, RIchard Britten said: So how has trying to bomb them into paste worked out so far? Maybe we just haven't used enough bombs? Or killed enough innocent people? blame the loopy left its had zero impact on recent events, they hate us, simple..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Quote 3 months later they are free to travel to the uk True but they are still subject to examination and questioning under Sect 7 of the Prevention of Terrorism Act 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Quote So how has trying to bomb them into paste worked out so far? I don't recall suggesting in any way that bombing had worked or would work (as you know). Even if we got out of "their" country now (which I think we should) they have stated that this would change nothing. They want a theocracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 6 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: True but they are still subject to examination and questioning under Sect 7 of the Prevention of Terrorism Act 2000. that clearly does not work.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: I don't recall suggesting in any way that bombing had worked or would work (as you know). Even if we got out of "their" country now (which I think we should) they have stated that this would change nothing. They want a theocracy. And is bombing them going to change their stand point? All bombing them does is act like a very effective recruiting platform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 It can never work in all cases. However the powers are there and you seemed to suggest there was no control at all. Edit : in reply to woody who said "that clearly does not work...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Quote And is bombing them going to change their stand point? All bombing them does is act like a very effective recruiting platform I agree as I hoped I'd made clear in post a few minutes ago following your previous misunderstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 1 minute ago, ballaughbiker said: It can never work in all cases. However the powers are there and you seemed to suggest there was no control at all. there wasn't, nothing whatsoever stopped him coming to the uk or getting a job on the underground...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 1 minute ago, ballaughbiker said: I agree as I hoped I'd made clear in post a few minutes ago following your previous misunderstanding. So we have both agreed that bombing hasn't/doesn't/won't work. So other than bombing (and apparently talking is off the table) what is your suggestion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 The powers are there if they want to use them. Not using a power is not the same as not having a power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Quote So we have both agreed that bombing hasn't/doesn't/won't work. For the third time, yes. I have never ever, once said it would. Where you got that idea is a mystery. Quote So other than bombing (and apparently talking is off the table) what is your suggestion? You first. Are you saying talking to religiously motivated crazed nutters would work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 5 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: The powers are there if they want to use them. Not using a power is not the same as not having a power. with no passport checks, how..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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