Neil Down Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 3 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said: Extending these terror related sentences from the half to the two thirds point is just going to wind up more of them IMO...and likely make attacks more prevalent. Rehabilitation needs to be the major element of these sentences. The current programme is clearly not working and needs to be totally re-thought and built into longer much extended sentences with far stricter controls and limitations on release. Problem is...Leopards don't change their spots...and these people are so devoted that they are easily pulling the wool over the parole boards eyes. Probably all discussing together some formula on what 'needs to be said' to obtain release. As far as I can see, it would need to include at least 5 years on release in the equivalent of Portmeirion Village in 'The Prisoner'. Maybe a lead aspirin administered behind the left ear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 39 minutes ago, woolley said: Seeing as I don't read the "rabid right wing UK press" I must have made it up all on my own. I know some of the types that predominate and pontificate on these bodies. Total dreamers who don't live in the real world, and then they go home to their leafy suburbs or rural idylls (or offshore islands) where they live their lives in total denial about the mayhem their decisions cause. Don't believe a word of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, P.K. said: Don't believe a word of it. I know. Neither do they. That's the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Just a reminder that early release was a Conservative Party idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 7 minutes ago, woolley said: You have more faith than me, quilpy. Look at the latest proposal after the recent atrocity. Knee jerk reaction in the aftermath - the government wants a clampdown and Boris is going to kick arse. By the time the suits in Whitehall got hold of it the next day, it's been watered down to making them serve 66% of their time rather than 50%. Fat lot of good that will do!! Length of sentence is an irrelevance anyway. It's not a deterrent and fundamental islamists are never gonna hold their hands up and admit that they or the tenets and preachings are wrong, the indoctrination is too complete and most people have no comprehension of its depth. Humanity, as we imagine it isn't a strong point in the mind of the determined jihadist. And they are legion. Consequently, the danger to societies here in the West, and many islamic countries, from scripturally-inspired sociopaths intent on the glory of death in the name of Allah and the entry into paradise through martyrdom isn't going to end anytime soon. They can't keep locking them up forever so what would be a befitting sentencing guideline? Cancel citizenship and immediate expulsion, after sentence, to any islamic country prepared to take them onboard? Whatever happened to the word and one-time existence of, 'Christendom?' You don't hear it said or referred-to, nowadays. Where did it go to? What changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 @quilp where are you going to expel.the ones that were born in Britain too? No country is obliged to take British citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 21 minutes ago, quilp said: Whatever happened to the word and one-time existence of, 'Christendom?' You don't hear it said or referred-to, nowadays. Where did it go to? What changed? It became a non-politically correct, dirty word, even in Christendom. Use of it might upset other faiths. Well, one in particular... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Quilp, are you aware of Quietist Salafism? It is too simplistic to say all radical Islamists are irredeemably wedded to violence, and cannot moderate their beliefs. People like Maajid Nawaz and the Quilliam Foundation are clear examples of "fundamental islamists holding their hands up and admitting that they and their tenets and preachings are wrong." Radicals can become moderates while not compromising their belief in Islam. You can go all "no true scotsman" on me and say these people aren't "real" islamists, but it is a fact there are alternative paths for devout Muslims to follow and radicals can and do change their paths to find a quietist belief. Lock them all up and throw away the key is such a simple answer, while de-radicalisation, vigilance, and engagement with the messy reality that people can be persuaded to change their beliefs is far harder. Don't bother seems to be a knee jerk reaction - and I can understand a part of it when the risks of error can be significant, but at a societal level my view is you should try cautiously to rehabilitate. I don't agree that it is impossible and alienating has bad consequences too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 24 minutes ago, quilp said: Whatever happened to the word and one-time existence of, 'Christendom?' You don't hear it said or referred-to, nowadays. Where did it go to? What changed? Humanists, sceptics and free-thinkers ended the dominance of priests in Western Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 17 minutes ago, Chinahand said: Humanists, sceptics and free-thinkers ended the dominance of priests in Western Europe. So what happened to Christendom in its place of origin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 25 minutes ago, Chinahand said: Humanists, sceptics and free-thinkers ended the dominance of priests in Western Europe. Economics and demand is the driver. And it's innovation which drives economics. It cannot be repeated often enough - but freedom and free markets are indivisible. Ultimately that will always also be about the free movement of capital and labour (people). Because that's how ideas spread and culture evolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 8 minutes ago, quilp said: So what happened to Christendom in its place of origin? You mean Rome - it went bunga bunga along with Belesconi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir nige Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 On 2/4/2020 at 5:20 PM, P.K. said: Errr I think you'll find that the last Labour government brought in indefinite sentences for Imprisonment for Public Protection (IPP). Scrapped by the Right Whingers as it happens. Never mind... due to the pc legal aid liberals taking every case via the court system at vast cost to taxpayers...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 6 minutes ago, Chinahand said: You mean Rome - it went bunga bunga along with Belesconi. The christ cult didn't start in Rome, its roots began in the land of Abraham, Israel, the ME as we now know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir nige Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 1 hour ago, manxman1980 said: @quilp where are you going to expel.the ones that were born in Britain too? No country is obliged to take British citizens. rockall....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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