GD4ELI Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 11 minutes ago, John Wright said: That's how single markets work, but hey tell that to your grandkids when they cant go and do "auf wiedersehn pet" because we locked ourselves out They may be able to do that in the future. The Swiss agreement with the EU allows for free movement of labour, so working in a Spanish bar in summer may well be possible. We'll just have to see how far May bends over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 trade inside the eu will be subject to the ecj, but not outside, just as when i work in the usa I'm subject to there laws and regs- its not rocket science.... wto have no real power, look what china has done since it joined... the latests figures show a massive influx of people again.... one quarter of growth after 20 years of decline as has happened in Italy doesn't look positive to me..... eu trade gets smaller every year with international trade growing for the uk..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, GD4ELI said: They may be able to do that in the future. The Swiss agreement with the EU allows for free movement of labour, so working in a Spanish bar in summer may well be possible. We'll just have to see how far May bends over. as it used to be under the eu i haven't heard anyone object to people coming to the uk with skills and a job in advance.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 13 minutes ago, GD4ELI said: They may be able to do that in the future. The Swiss agreement with the EU allows for free movement of labour, so working in a Spanish bar in summer may well be possible. We'll just have to see how far May bends over. Since the Swiss voted against the EEA everything has been done by bi lateral agreements EU/CH, including Freedom of Movement. There are about 200 of them. Switzerland then voted against freedom of movement, in effect, but was told by the EU that it was an essential quid pro quo of freedom of trade. Guess who capitulated. And the EU have told the Swiss "no more bilateral one off agreements, its all got to be in one big agreement in the future". So that sort of indicates where the EU will be going with UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 i thought the swiss are due to be barred from trade with the eu? going back to the ecj i have heard mentioned by both the eu and the uk, a independent body would settle disputes, not the ecj/uk courts..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Quote nigel lawson has it right, tell the eu what the uk wants, withhold all payments, take the phone off the hook for a few months. Yay...! Says the man who started a crisis nearly as bad as the impending one and now comfortably lives out his retirement in the south of France. This is going to be even more of a disaster if we adopt some stupid gung-ho trump-like approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 4 hours ago, woody2 said: i thought the swiss are due to be barred from trade with the eu? going back to the ecj i have heard mentioned by both the eu and the uk, a independent body would settle disputes, not the ecj/uk courts..... I attach a link to an article written by a specialist in EU law and the ECJ...When you read it one gets the impression that untangling established webs will require the ECJ to oversee matters for some time to come... Also, there is the issue of that division of the ECJ dealing with employees of EU institutions and the European Commission... Large numbers of people will have been employed over many years and established interests such as pensions stemming from their service to the EU. Once again the ECJ looks sure to have some jurisdiction for years to come...although the implementation of ECJ decisions is and always has been the responsibility of each member state alone... https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi4loWJpNTUAhUGIcAKHTUvBFAQFghGMAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fukandeu.ac.uk%2Fexplainers%2Fthe-court-of-justice%2F&usg=AFQjCNE_2WZv1tqjPm2LRQuoiJNWMf8Z0A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 6 hours ago, woody2 said: I haven't heard anyone object to people coming to the uk with skills and a job in advance.... I haven't heard anyone, other than the usual troublemakers and losers, complaining about anyone coming to the UK. And let's be honest - most of those who do complain are not playing with a full deck. The City of London is the UK's largest taxpayer. The view of the City is what matters first. The man in the street is not especially bright and typically costs much more than he contributes - should certainly never have been given a vote on this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 most of the city don't seem to care, unlimited free movement is the problem especially the ones who only claim benefits.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 17 hours ago, Barrie Stevens said: I attach a link to an article written by a specialist in EU law and the ECJ...When you read it one gets the impression that untangling established webs will require the ECJ to oversee matters for some time to come... Also, there is the issue of that division of the ECJ dealing with employees of EU institutions and the European Commission... Large numbers of people will have been employed over many years and established interests such as pensions stemming from their service to the EU. Once again the ECJ looks sure to have some jurisdiction for years to come...although the implementation of ECJ decisions is and always has been the responsibility of each member state alone... https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi4loWJpNTUAhUGIcAKHTUvBFAQFghGMAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fukandeu.ac.uk%2Fexplainers%2Fthe-court-of-justice%2F&usg=AFQjCNE_2WZv1tqjPm2LRQuoiJNWMf8Z0A once the uk leaves the ecj have no say in the uk unless they agree, the eu summit yesterday confirmed this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted June 24, 2017 Author Share Posted June 24, 2017 2 hours ago, woody2 said: once the uk leaves the ecj have no say in the uk unless they agree, the eu summit yesterday confirmed this... Which is an intrinsic part of the above post... However, it seems the EU will not agree anything without the ECJ being involved...After all it will not be just the EU as a legal entity it will be 27 member states each of which may want to retain the protection of the court as an option. This has been said as regards the EU citizens' rights post Brexit...Whatever is settled or agreed on any matters, but especially the plight of citizens on all sides, will be subject to EU law....and the court for that when the ultimate agreement is decided by the EU is an EU court...As the man said "We are not leaving you. It is you who are leaving us"...Guess who makes the rules? I cannot see anything being settled about anything at all without ECJ oversight and that the UK will be forced to concede this.. It will be a bit like some small Commonwealth countries, Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories still retaining the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council as their final appeal court..That sort of thing anyway... In the meantime it looks very much like a hard Brexit is not going to happen and any form of interim stage and/or artificially created access to the Single Market and Customs Union or "Brexit Lite" belies the concept of the UK actually leaving the EU in reality anyway...This seems to be the way it is heading! Then there is the special treatment for the border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. This looks set fair to be "Ersatz Brexit" in that one part of the UK will be more EU than the UK itself or "All Brexiteers are equal but some are more equal than others".. So with one part of the UK having a foot in both camps I for one cannot say "We have Brexit"...and with all these loose ends the EU will insist on ECJ oversight... The idea of no ECJ involvement is all very well for a "Hard Brexit"...But that looks increasingly unlikely...The way ahead seems to be a large helping of fudge and back pedalling...Listening to the Radio 4 political programmes I hear the quiet people in Westminster getting ready to let some air out of the balloon and the basket settled back on the ground. When certain people keep repeating "We are leaving the European Union" they sound increasingly desperate and frankly as if they are not fully convinced themselves... Whatever happens it will not be what most people envisaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llap Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 BBC Documentary on Brexit with Nigel Farage Jacob Rees Mogg and Boris Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 11 minutes ago, llap said: BBC Documentary on Brexit with Nigel Farage Jacob Rees Mogg and Boris Johnson So the view of the rich ruling elite then, I wouldn't have had that down as your sort of thing. None of those three will be adversely affected by Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llap Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 23 minutes ago, mojomonkey said: So the view of the rich ruling elite then, I wouldn't have had that down as your sort of thing. None of those three will be adversely affected by Brexit. Eh? I posted a BBC documentary just for people's information. In doing so, I in no way endorse the content or the propaganda company who broadcasted it. In fact, I have not yet watched it all myself. I am in the middle of watching it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 56 minutes ago, llap said: Eh? I posted a BBC documentary just for people's information. In doing so, I in no way endorse the content or the propaganda company who broadcasted it. In fact, I have not yet watched it all myself. I am in the middle of watching it. Fair enough, I look forward to your comments once you have watched it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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