pongo Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 8 hours ago, woody2 said: free movement is the problem especially the ones who only claim benefits.... A populist rallying point but in reality of almost no significant economic consequence. But let's not lose focus on the main issue which is that Brexit is a coalition of spivs and geezers. The whole thing is utterly pointless and will set the economy back for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 4 hours ago, llap said: BBC Documentary on Brexit with Nigel Farage Jacob Rees Mogg and Boris Johnson Thanks for sharing. Loved Jacob Rees Mogg saying Labour were the party of the intellectual elite, then answering a question in Latin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 20 hours ago, Barrie Stevens said: Which is an intrinsic part of the above post... However, it seems the EU will not agree anything without the ECJ being involved...After all it will not be just the EU as a legal entity it will be 27 member states each of which may want to retain the protection of the court as an option. This has been said as regards the EU citizens' rights post Brexit...Whatever is settled or agreed on any matters, but especially the plight of citizens on all sides, will be subject to EU law....and the court for that when the ultimate agreement is decided by the EU is an EU court...As the man said "We are not leaving you. It is you who are leaving us"...Guess who makes the rules? I cannot see anything being settled about anything at all without ECJ oversight and that the UK will be forced to concede this.. It will be a bit like some small Commonwealth countries, Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories still retaining the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council as their final appeal court..That sort of thing anyway... In the meantime it looks very much like a hard Brexit is not going to happen and any form of interim stage and/or artificially created access to the Single Market and Customs Union or "Brexit Lite" belies the concept of the UK actually leaving the EU in reality anyway...This seems to be the way it is heading! Then there is the special treatment for the border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. This looks set fair to be "Ersatz Brexit" in that one part of the UK will be more EU than the UK itself or "All Brexiteers are equal but some are more equal than others".. So with one part of the UK having a foot in both camps I for one cannot say "We have Brexit"...and with all these loose ends the EU will insist on ECJ oversight... The idea of no ECJ involvement is all very well for a "Hard Brexit"...But that looks increasingly unlikely...The way ahead seems to be a large helping of fudge and back pedalling...Listening to the Radio 4 political programmes I hear the quiet people in Westminster getting ready to let some air out of the balloon and the basket settled back on the ground. When certain people keep repeating "We are leaving the European Union" they sound increasingly desperate and frankly as if they are not fully convinced themselves... Whatever happens it will not be what most people envisaged. i will repeat- once the uk leaves the ecj have no say in the uk unless they agree, its a fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 15 hours ago, pongo said: A populist rallying point but in reality of almost no significant economic consequence. But let's not lose focus on the main issue which is that Brexit is a coalition of spivs and geezers. The whole thing is utterly pointless and will set the economy back for decades. not paying tax and using services has a massive impact.... one minute its the rich wanting us out, next its funding the uk to stay in, make your mind up.... its a pyramid scheme not economic growth..... it was the left that voted for exit lets not forget.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted June 25, 2017 Author Share Posted June 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, woody2 said: i will repeat- once the uk leaves the ecj have no say in the uk unless they agree, its a fact And I see no one disagreeing with you!... But there is more to it than that...It all depends on the degree that the UK leaves because at the moment the swift undertow current in Westminster is for a pretend Brexit aka a soft Brexit and an interim period of some years to allow everyone to adjust. Try and listen to Radio 4's political programme on at the moment (9.34 am Sunday) and the one they will broadcast late tonight. They contain the less hysterical speakers from Westminster and the ones who will quietly change things.. I am going to say it! The UK will not fully leave the EU... It will be a "bodger"...It will be a simulacrum. ie an unsatisfactory imitation or substitute....And along with that will come the ECJ to some extent. In Brussels they describe Theresa May's attitude towards cutting out the ECJ as "deluded" and "On another galaxy".. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 apart from phil i've not seen any tory support your view.... but.... once the uk leaves the ecj have no say in the uk unless they agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted June 25, 2017 Author Share Posted June 25, 2017 8 minutes ago, woody2 said: apart from phil i've not seen any tory support your view.... but.... once the uk leaves the ecj have no say in the uk unless they agree The following link gives some interesting views and explanations...It is certainly not B&W and that is the nub. How fudged will our Brexit be? There is leave and then there is "leave"...Give the link a go! https://www.ft.com/content/32cd1e87-c7d1-3026-86fc-bce5229711d1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted June 25, 2017 Author Share Posted June 25, 2017 10 minutes ago, woody2 said: apart from phil i've not seen any tory support your view.... but.... once the uk leaves the ecj have no say in the uk unless they agree Who is "Phil" pray tell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted June 25, 2017 Author Share Posted June 25, 2017 13 minutes ago, woody2 said: apart from phil i've not seen any tory support your view.... but.... once the uk leaves the ecj have no say in the uk unless they agree The FT link is not doing what I thought but you should be able to read the entire article if you Google "Why did the ECJ become a UK "red line"?... Hope it works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 FFS this isn't exactly rocket science! The Maybot made the pathetic 5 year offer to try and avoid the ECJ. However the 27 would NEVER trust a UK court to deal with, say, pension disputes between EU workers and their UK bosses. So it's the ECJ or f-all. End of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 6 hours ago, woody2 said: It was the left that voted for exit lets not forget.... Extremists and b-streamers, left and right, voted for it. Those now arguing for a 'hard' Brexit are Falangists. It's a scorched earth approach. It was an incredibly stupid decision which will **** things up for decades. Nobody had a clue what they were actually voting for. There is no plan. Utterly nihilistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 On 25/06/2017 at 10:32 AM, P.K. said: FFS this isn't exactly rocket science! The Maybot made the pathetic 5 year offer to try and avoid the ECJ. However the 27 would NEVER trust a UK court to deal with, say, pension disputes between EU workers and their UK bosses. So it's the ECJ or f-all. End of. outside the eu the ecj have no power..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted June 26, 2017 Author Share Posted June 26, 2017 1 hour ago, woody2 said: outside the eu the ecj have no power..... Yes, but how far "outside" is "outside" because I see the compass needle swinging in a different direction...Keep those ears open! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 I see the Maybot has widened the 5 year offer to keep out the ECJ. However I don't see the 27 changing their position on EU citizens rights in the UK being guaranteed by the ECJ. So I guess it will come down to how much they think the unrealistic "take back control" meaningless soundbite is worth in terms of things like trade. Idiots pandering to idiots.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 even the labour lords are saying that they won't accept a deal if the ecj have jurisdiction. looks like pk and bazza are making a fuss over nothing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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