Time To Change The Law On Drugs?

[Turtleish]

1 minute ago, The Phantom said:

 

So basically it seems that we haven't even remotely got the infrastructure in place to allow the dispensary to get it's product?  Why make the big announcements when we clearly can't do it.  Standard shambles. 

Got an attic, garage, shed, spare room? 

For about £300 you can get a tent, lights and fan.  With some fast autoflowers, you could be in the green in about 3/4 months.

So I'm told. 

Judging by the prices quoted of likely about that per month, it seems your local dealer would be offering a public service. 

I have a budda grow tent and all the stuff I need.. just can't afford to get arrested for growing my own.  Rock and hard Place. 

[quilp]

8 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

So basically it seems that we haven't even remotely got the infrastructure in place to allow the dispensary to get it's product?  Why make the big announcements when we clearly can't do it. Standard shambles.

This. It all smacks of the usual Manx government tokenism. 

[code99]

It is obviously unfair that only patients who can afford private prescriptions through private enterprises will be able to legally obtain medical cannabis in the UK / IoM (meanwhile here on the Island there have been some unspecified “technical issues” which need to be resolved with the UK Home Office).

I am in favour of medical cannabis being available to NHS patients under the rules not dissimilar for prescribing medicinal steroids (or dispensing morphine for that matter) for medical conditions deemed appropriate by the NHS doctors. This is what Tynwald should try to agree with the UK as the next step in this process. As far as ‘decriminalising’ or ‘legalising’ is concerned, that would ultimately be up to the UK Home Office. As has already been flagged, they recently wrecked Bermuda’s plans to legalise the use of recreational cannabis.

[The Phantom]

2 hours ago, Turtleish said:

I have a budda grow tent and all the stuff I need.. just can't afford to get arrested for growing my own.  Rock and hard Place. 

If I had a prescription for it and the only reason I couldn't get it was due to official bungling, then I would grow for sure.  If I then got caught, I'd sell the story to every single media outlet I could find in order to expose the incompetence in place here. 

Admittedly I can be a bit blasé about things and do tend to shoot my mouth off, but I'd feel that I had extra validation with a prescription.

30 minutes ago, code99 said:

It is obviously unfair that only patients who can afford private prescriptions through private enterprises will be able to legally obtain medical cannabis in the UK / IoM

I am in favour of medical cannabis being available to NHS patients under the rules not dissimilar for prescribing medicinal steroids (or dispensing morphine for that matter) for medical conditions deemed appropriate by the NHS doctors.

It's a good point.  If the prescription price of £300 per month is correct, that's not a small amount of money to be shelling out.  Bear in mind it's likely that you wouldn't be able to drive either, due to our over zealous use of drug wipes that are used on people with defective tail-lights and no impaired driving (I've actually seen this quoted in one of the police reports).

The problem too is that because 'drugs are bad', very little serious research (or acceptance) has gone into the treatment of ailments with Cannabis, so Docs generally are not minded to prescribe it as a remedy for something.   I think there are literally only a couple of ailments where it is officially accepted as beneficial. 

[manxfisherman]

It would be unfair to GP's to put them in the position of prescribing cannabis. A refusal may not go down well.

[WTF]

2 hours ago, The Phantom said:

  If the prescription price of £300 per month is correct, that's not a small amount of money to be shelling out.  Bear in mind it's likely that you wouldn't be able to drive either, due to our over zealous use of drug wipes that are used on people with defective tail-lights and no impaired driving (I've actually seen this quoted in one of the police reports).

 

but the usual smack heads and pensioners will be on FREE prescriptions anyway so it will be the rest of us paying to keep them high.

[manxfisherman]

6 minutes ago, WTF said:

but the usual smack heads and pensioners will be on FREE prescriptions anyway so it will be the rest of us paying to keep them high.

This post is wrong for a number of reasons. 

The cannabis prescription service in its current ill considered form is entirely private.

There are no free prescriptions. There were some 'free' consultations as part of the doctors opening gambit.

There is no public money involved. You are not paying to keep people high.

Someone sensible would argue that giving smack heads FREE cannabis as part of a treatment plan would have a significant societal benefit. 

I don't want to defend this 'service', I think it's despicable, but there are ways to criticize it without displaying your ignorance.

[The Phantom]

Update newsletter from Peel Group for the Cannabis Farm. 

Seems they are also putting solar in to power this too. 

https://preview.mailerlite.com/h2n4j3y3g1/2068087414118684327/b1k6/

I've also signed up to go to the GRO 'fireside chat' next month and I'll pass on any info there. 

[quilp]

20 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

Update newsletter from Peel Group for the Cannabis Farm. 

Seems they are also putting solar in to power this too. 

https://preview.mailerlite.com/h2n4j3y3g1/2068087414118684327/b1k6/

I've also signed up to go to the GRO 'fireside chat' next month and I'll pass on any info there. 

I signed up a while back and received the same. The newsletter is fairly comprehensive about the business and its projections. A £90m-£180m investment locally, green energy, employment, training. Locally produced product should logically bring the price down, as for most applicants it will be expensive, even prohibitive, initially.

I wonder has @Rob Callister shown an interest and perused the document?

[WTF]

17 hours ago, manxfisherman said:

This post is wrong for a number of reasons. 

The cannabis prescription service in its current ill considered form is entirely private.

There are no free prescriptions. There were some 'free' consultations as part of the doctors opening gambit.

There is no public money involved. You are not paying to keep people high.

Someone sensible would argue that giving smack heads FREE cannabis as part of a treatment plan would have a significant societal benefit. 

I don't want to defend this 'service', I think it's despicable, but there are ways to criticize it without displaying your ignorance.

ok,   so there is going to be a way to not break the law but only if you have money,  sounds about right.

[The Phantom]

7 minutes ago, WTF said:

ok,   so there is going to be a way to not break the law but only if you have money,  sounds about right.

There are many drugs that are legal to prescribe but illegal to possess if you don't have a prescription.  Usually Class C, things like Diazepam/Valium, Steroids etc.  

[quilp]

There are drivers on the roads semi-dazed by a large variety of common pharmaceuticals in their bloodstream, all of which might cause 'impairment'. One time, I was prescribed Tramadol for chronic pain. After a few days of taking it, it didn't take long to realise that I could not safely drive. Apart from the side-effects of nausea and psychological weirdness, my reaction time, spatial awareness, peripheral vision and ultimately confidence were all affected. I walked around in a semi fugue-like state for days after ceasing taking it. It did its job by providing temporary respite from the condition but in the end it just wasn't worth it.

That's obviously my personal experience which won't be the same for others. Some might be unable to assess their level of impairment, as I believe drugs like Tramadol, the wide variety of Benzo's and opiates, anti-psychotics, et al, make the user less conscionable. Alcohol is the same; "I felt alright to drive" is heard often, especially the 'morning after' offender.

Roadside testing/blood tests should be extended to include all those potentially intoxicating substances. But then, deciding what level of any drug in a person's bloodstream constitutes actual impairment would be difficult to ascertain, as is with cannabis.

[The Phantom]

47 minutes ago, quilp said:

There are drivers on the roads semi-dazed by a large variety of common pharmaceuticals in their bloodstream, all of which might cause 'impairment'. One time, I was prescribed Tramadol for chronic pain. After a few days of taking it, it didn't take long to realise that I could not safely drive. Apart from the side-effects of nausea and psychological weirdness, my reaction time, spatial awareness, peripheral vision and ultimately confidence were all affected. I walked around in a semi fugue-like state for days after ceasing taking it. It did its job by providing temporary respite from the condition but in the end it just wasn't worth it.

That's obviously my personal experience which won't be the same for others. Some might be unable to assess their level of impairment, as I believe drugs like Tramadol, the wide variety of Benzo's and opiates, anti-psychotics, et al, make the user less conscionable. Alcohol is the same; "I felt alright to drive" is heard often, especially the 'morning after' offender.

Roadside testing/blood tests should be extended to include all those potentially intoxicating substances. But then, deciding what level of any drug in a person's bloodstream constitutes actual impairment would be difficult to ascertain, as is with cannabis.

I was prescribed Tramadol a few years ago too.  Took it for a couple of days and had similar effects and then stopped using it.  I was literally a zombie.  Awful stuff; I'd rather be in pain! 

A sobriety/impairment test would be the sensible way to go to be honest.  I've done many potentially dangerous sports and activities after a joint or two.  If I was that impaired I'd likely have killed myself by now.  If I have felt impaired at the time, then I have waited and hour or so to clear my head.  To be honest, you can feel that it actually focuses you somewhat and get into 'flow state'.  I saw something from Joe Rogan a while ago discussing its widely accepted use in Jujitsu for this reason.  It's also one of the arguments for why it's on banned lists for many sports including the Olympics. 

Close to 20% of the UK population are on anti-depressants of some description.  I don't recall anyone ever being busted for having these in their system, when it has been shown to affect driving.   

But yeah it's a tricky one.  I agree with the alcohol driving limits and won't drive after more than one drink, but the cannabis wipe test just doesn't seem thought out or researched at all. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by The Phantom

[The Phantom]

Now Germany.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germany-legalize-cannabis-use-recreational-purposes-2022-10-26/

[Roger Mexico]

The way in which the new drug driving regulations are being implemented in the Courts is throwing so very strange and unfair-looking judgements.  For example here is someone with a reading of 10 micrograms per litre who is given a fine of £500 and ten penalty points.  On the other hand here is someone with a reading of only 2.1 (only just over the limit) who was fined £1000 and banned for driving for two years.  Both cases are from this month.

Now the main difference is that they seem to have decided to charge the first accused with being in charge of the vehicle rather than actually driving even though "his keys were in his hand and the ignition was on".  But is shows that. unlike with alcohol, absolutely no account is taken of how great the consumption of the intoxicant was.  It all sems very arbitrary and unscientific.