Time To Change The Law On Drugs?

[The Phantom]

14 minutes ago, Barlow said:

Just listening to a BBC Radio 4 programme. There seems to be a heck of a lot of young people with so-called mental health issues. I've noticed this generally and school kids even here who are prescribed anti-depressants. There didn't seem to be any such problems when I were a lad etc.

Is the greater availability of, and insistence that cannabis should be normalised/legalised has anything to do with this.

 

I'd say social media has a bigger impact.  Plus not playing outside generally as much (maybe not so much here, but certainly the UK).  Also covid lockdown did have a pretty big effect on the kids in my experience and chatting to other parents of school kids. 

[Roger Mexico]

39 minutes ago, Barlow said:

Just listening to a BBC Radio 4 programme. There seems to be a heck of a lot of young people with so-called mental health issues. I've noticed this generally and school kids even here who are prescribed anti-depressants. There didn't seem to be any such problems when I were a lad etc.

Is the greater availability of, and insistence that cannabis should be normalised/legalised has anything to do with this.

Except that the figures show that the percentage of young people using cannabis has been going down over recent decades:

So by your logic the real problem is that they haven't been smoking enough.

[Ativa]

1 hour ago, Barlow said:

Just listening to a BBC Radio 4 programme. There seems to be a heck of a lot of young people with so-called mental health issues. I've noticed this generally and school kids even here who are prescribed anti-depressants. There didn't seem to be any such problems when I were a lad etc.

Is the greater availability of, and insistence that cannabis should be normalised/legalised has anything to do with this.

 

There are many reasons for this.  One of which is simply that people are encouraged to speak out if they are struggling or having issues rather then the old stuff upper lip nonsense.

Drug use isn’t one of them other than in a very small number of cases.

[Ativa]

55 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Except that the figures show that the percentage of young people using cannabis has been going down over recent decades:

So by your logic the real problem is that they haven't been smoking enough.

The same applies to drinking.

There is considerably less underage drinking in my kids friend groups than there ever was when I was that age.

The drinking that does go on is much better controlled by parents.  Eh at a recent party the mum contacted other parents saying that since the kids weren’t 18 they would only be allowed to bring three drinks each with them.  Most didn’t bother.  In my day it would have been forbidden by parents and so we would all sneak stuff in and end up paralytic.

Does that suggest that allowing something makes it less appealing to youngsters?  I would suggest it probably does.

[Barlow]

I see someone got done for driving under the influence of drugs again.

Police said that he was crossing the centre lines, speeding up and slowing down, and driving erratically.

I think his biggest crime was not seeing that he was being followed by the police.

..he was subsequently stopped and officers reported that his pupils were heavily dilated, his speech was slurred, and there was a smell of cannabis.

At Douglas Courthouse he admitted to drug driving with his advocate telling the court: "It’s not substantially over the limit but nevertheless it is over the limit.” Although it is interesting that another report says he was 50% over the limit. (a reading of 3 whereas the limit is 2)

Either way, perhaps the limit is far too low. I note some stoners on this forum think it is too high.

 

[WTF]

29 minutes ago, Barlow said:

I see someone got done for driving under the influence of drugs again.

Police said that he was crossing the centre lines, speeding up and slowing down, and driving erratically.

I think his biggest crime was not seeing that he was being followed by the police.

..he was subsequently stopped and officers reported that his pupils were heavily dilated, his speech was slurred, and there was a smell of cannabis.

At Douglas Courthouse he admitted to drug driving with his advocate telling the court: "It’s not substantially over the limit but nevertheless it is over the limit.” Although it is interesting that another report says he was 50% over the limit. (a reading of 3 whereas the limit is 2)

Either way, perhaps the limit is far too low. I note some stoners on this forum think it is too high.

 

it is too low,  i am led to believe  the prescription cannabis currently being doled out contains sufficient amounts of THC to put you over the drug drive limit on  island even when taken in the prescribed dose.   the same dose elsewhere on the planet is within legal limits ,the literature with your local prescription gives no information about not driving whilst taking the prescription,  it is only a matter of time before someone with a legal prescription falls foul of the driving levels permitted here. 

[Barlow]

31 minutes ago, WTF said:

it is too low,  i am led to believe  the prescription cannabis currently being doled out contains sufficient amounts of THC to put you over the drug drive limit on  island even when taken in the prescribed dose. 

The chap's driving was rather poor (some might say careless, inattentive and dangerous). The guy seemed to be pretty wrecked.

I wouldn't like to be on the road with someone like that. From the account pf the advocate he was not substantially over the limit.

This suggests to me that the limits needs to be lowered more.

And if a prescription drug makes a driver less attentive then they should not drive. It really is that simple.

[John Wright]

2 hours ago, Barlow said:

I see someone got done for driving under the influence of drugs again.

Police said that he was crossing the centre lines, speeding up and slowing down, and driving erratically.

I think his biggest crime was not seeing that he was being followed by the police.

..he was subsequently stopped and officers reported that his pupils were heavily dilated, his speech was slurred, and there was a smell of cannabis.

At Douglas Courthouse he admitted to drug driving with his advocate telling the court: "It’s not substantially over the limit but nevertheless it is over the limit.” Although it is interesting that another report says he was 50% over the limit. (a reading of 3 whereas the limit is 2)

Either way, perhaps the limit is far too low. I note some stoners on this forum think it is too high.

 

There is no research based, peer reviewed, evidence as to the co-relationship between level of drugs in blood and standard of driving.

The courts can impose a longer disqualification than 2 years, but the sentencing guidance ( not guidelines )  suggest the reading has to be over 10, for cannabis. So 3 is not substantially over the limit.

Thats especially true when the minimum punishment here is a 2 year ban, rather than 1 year elsewhere.

1 hour ago, WTF said:

it is too low,  i am led to believe  the prescription cannabis currently being doled out contains sufficient amounts of THC to put you over the drug drive limit on  island even when taken in the prescribed dose.   the same dose elsewhere on the planet is within legal limits ,the literature with your local prescription gives no information about not driving whilst taking the prescription,  it is only a matter of time before someone with a legal prescription falls foul of the driving levels permitted here. 

As the majority of drug drive legal limits across Europe are lower than that in the Isle of Man, and the Isle of Man limit is lower than many places in the world, and the THC doled out here on prescription is the same strength as in UK and across Europe, it stands to reason that IoM prescribed doses might put you over the limit, no more, and no less, than UK, French, Irish, Spanish prescribed doses. In other words it’s exactly the same.

The prescribing Dr will warn about consequences of taking, like drowsiness inattention, poor concentration, not to operate heavy equipment or machinery or drive.

The leaflet does contain such warnings, as do dozens of other drugs that have a prescribed drive limit.

There is a semi medical defence. If you produce a prescription and claim you were driving whilst taking medically, then the burden of proof is reversed and the police have to prove it wasn’t taken in accordance with the advice and warnings of the prescriber and the leaflet. But it’s an easy task.

 

45 minutes ago, Barlow said:

The chap's driving was rather poor (some might say careless, inattentive and dangerous). The guy seemed to be pretty wrecked.

I wouldn't like to be on the road with someone like that. From the account pf the advocate he was not substantially over the limit.

This suggests to me that the limits needs to be lowered more.

And if a prescription drug makes a driver less attentive then they should not drive. It really is that simple.

Cannabis appears to have greatly differing effects on different users. Who knows what other drugs or alcohol might have been in his system.

There is no peer reviewed scientific evidence at what level impairment kicks in.

The standard leaflet lists a long list of side effects, and even longer list of other drugs ( including alcohol and common medications ) with which cannabis will interact and the side effects be magnified.

It also contains the following warning.

Patients should be advised that if they do drink alcohol while using cannabis the additive effects on the brain may impair their ability to drive or use machines and increase the risk of falls and injury.

Effects on your ability to drive and use machine
Cannabis may produce undesirable effects such as dizziness and drowsiness which may impair judgement and performance of skilled tasks. Patients should not drive, operate machinery or engage in any hazardous activity if they are experiencing any significant central nervous system (CNS) effects such as dizziness or drowsiness.

There are other warnings and caveats.

https://www.drugscience.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Cellen-Patient-information-leaflet.pdf

[Shake me up Judy]

Just been looking at a short video on 'Monkey Dust' the latest synthetic street drug to arrive in the U.K. from America. It's a zombie epidemic over there and users display intense paranoia, hallucinatory euphoria, and 'monkey like' behaviour if challenged or threatened. 

Doesn't this show once again that the argument for legalisation has long been overtaken by the prevalence of these dangerous street drugs, for which demand will only increase, whether we regulate the market or not ? 

[The Phantom]

22 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said:

Just been looking at a short video on 'Monkey Dust' the latest synthetic street drug to arrive in the U.K. from America. It's a zombie epidemic over there and users display intense paranoia, hallucinatory euphoria, and 'monkey like' behaviour if challenged or threatened. 

Doesn't this show once again that the argument for legalisation has long been overtaken by the prevalence of these dangerous street drugs, for which demand will only increase, whether we regulate the market or not ? 

And there is nothing they can really do, because it's only recently been synthesied in a lab and still not illegal.  Very much like 'Plant Food' about 10 years ago.  At least we're aware of the longterm effects of the majority of the legacy historical narcotics that are generally derived from natural sources. 

The US has massive problems with Opioid abuse (if you'll believe some reports, driven by Big Pharma aka the Legal Cartel) and also Crystal Meth.  I've often wondered why neither of these have really made it across the Pond. 

[La Colombe]

Amazing article, here in the Guardian about drugs plans for the island. It's been kept rather quiet, but cannabis has already effectively been decriminalised on the island. Not for everyone though, just for those who can somehow blag a prescription. It's rather unfair really. But at least things are heading in the right direction. 

[Zarley]

11 minutes ago, La Colombe said:

...but cannabis has already effectively been decriminalised on the island. Not for everyone though, just for those who can somehow blag a prescription. 

By "blag", do you mean "pay through the nose for", which many who would benefit from said prescription can't afford to do? If so, I wholeheartedly agree. 

[La Colombe]

From what I can gather, it's cheaper than the street price. 

[offshoremanxman]

15 minutes ago, La Colombe said:

Amazing article, here in the Guardian about drugs plans for the island. It's been kept rather quiet, but cannabis has already effectively been decriminalised on the island. Not for everyone though, just for those who can somehow blag a prescription. It's rather unfair really. But at least things are heading in the right direction. 

I thought it was pretty well known that it can be legally prescribed here now? We are well behind the curve I think it’s been able to be legally described in Jersey and Guernsey for around 10 years or so. 

[La Colombe]

Well I would hazard that the reality of the situation isn't that well known by the island's polite society. I mingle on occasion with the seedy underbelly otherwise I wouldn't have known either.