Shake me up Judy Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 We've got a competition (Well, me to be honest) running in our house as to how many times Biggles can mention Nazis. It's interesting to compare Trump's condemnation of the violence on both sides at Charlottesville - with Corbyn's sacking of Sarah Champion for speaking the truth about Muslim child abuse gangs in Britain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 2 hours ago, sausage said: Trump defends 'beautiful' Confederate statues....family of famous Confederate general asks for statue to be removed because of what it represents and the kind of people it appeals to....how many times does the president want to be wrong on this one Just what do you think Confederate monuments represent? They are no different to Union monuments. I have already explained to you that the Civil War wasn't about slavery or racism. It was a states' rights issue. A confederacy of southern states tried to secede from the Union. They didn't do so because of slavery or abolition. You might want to do some research as to the actual reasons for the secession before talking nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I can see at least half a dozen pages have appeared on the thread since I last commented. I just had a quick skim through some of the pages and don't think I'll be bothering reading them if I'm honest. I might just go and scan some pages from this amazing thing called a "book" (google it, I'm sure there will be a Wikipedia article on what those are) to explain the actual reasons for the US Civil War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Whatever part of the States I lived in I'd defend the country's history and the importance of leaders like Robert E Lee and the Confederate flag to the South and the whole nation. I also reckon I'd fight for that history if it came to it. That wouldn't make me or many thousands of others Nazis. The same thing has been happening in Britain too but so far the rewriting of history has been without violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sausage Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 43 minutes ago, Aristotle said: Just what do you think Confederate monuments represent? They are no different to Union monuments. I have already explained to you that the Civil War wasn't about slavery or racism. It was a states' rights issue. A confederacy of southern states tried to secede from the Union. They didn't do so because of slavery or abolition. You might want to do some research as to the actual reasons for the secession before talking nonsense. And one of their foremost primary reasons for trying to secede from the union wasn't disagreeing with Union over slavery ???!!! Are we talking about the same war ???!!!! Please read the article I linked to....or google it. I am fairly sure that Stonewall Jackson's great great grandchildren have a little bit of knowledge about their history....the statues...and what they represented, both at time of erection (decades after the civil war ended in most cases) and now. They want the statue of dear old great great granddaddy removed...good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 26 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said: We've got a competition (Well, me to be honest) running in our house as to how many times Biggles can mention Nazis. It's interesting to compare Trump's condemnation of the violence on both sides at Charlottesville - with Corbyn's sacking of Sarah Champion for speaking the truth about Muslim child abuse gangs in Britain. Jeremy denied sacking her, claims she went of her own accord. She should've stayed and made him sack her, made him make some sort of statement, thus maintaining some integrity and sense of conviction. Leaving unceremoniously with her tail firmly between her legs, and owning up to an, "extremely poor choice of words" ("Britain has a problem with British Pakistani men raping and exploiting white girls.") has probably seen off any hopes of a credible political career. What matters is whether what she stated is correct or not. Jeremy also said it was wrong to blame, "an entire ethnic community" for child abuse. So has the actions of these racist rapists and drug-dealers cast aspersions over the whole of this ethnic community (not in my opinion)...? Or is Jeremy just attempting to make political kudos by creating a false dilemma of victimhood amongst said community? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, sausage said: And one of their foremost primary reasons for trying to secede from the union wasn't disagreeing with Union over slavery ???!!! Are we talking about the same war ???!!!! Please read the article I linked to....or google it. I am fairly sure that Stonewall Jackson's great great grandchildren have a little bit of knowledge about their history....the statues...and what they represented, both at time of erection (decades after the civil war ended in most cases) and now. They want the statue of dear old great great granddaddy removed...good enough for me. That's correct. It was not a primary reason at all. I don't know which war you're talking about but I'm talking about the US Civil War. I seriously doubt a pair of trailer trash have more knowledge about US history or the US Civil War than I do just because they are great great grandchildren of some Confederate general that they never even met. I had a great grandfather in the Second Boer War but it doesn't mean I know more than the average person about that war or its history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 That Thomas Jefferson had quite a few slaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 It is worth remembering that the release from bondage directly led to impoverishment and certain death for thousands of torn-apart slave families. People had their livelihoods and essential resources taken from them. However meagre their previous existence, it was nothing compared to the absolute misery following 'freedom', for some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Just now, mojomonkey said: That Thomas Jefferson had quite a few slaves. Inherited. He was responsible for making Virginia one of the first places in the world to ban the importation of slaves. He was heavily opposed to slavery. But you know full well this is a contentious topic that has been the subject of a lot of debate. The fact that there is so much debate should be a big clue that things are not as straightforward as people like to make out. Just as the KKK and its well known and documented links with the racist Democratic Party are a topic which can be debated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, quilp said: It is worth remembering that the release from bondage directly led to impoverishment and certain death for thousands of torn-apart slave families. People had their livelihoods and essential resources taken from them. However meagre their previous existence, it was nothing compared to the absolute misery following 'freedom', for some. For most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Some posters on here need a bit of a history lesson. Racism in America wasn't and isn't confined to the South. I recall the race riots of the 1960's were just as bad in northern cities as in the south. Just ask the black communities of Harlem New York, Watts and Compton in Los Angeles, southside Chicago,or the black communities of Detroit, Baltimore, St Louis etc. A black person in many northern cities is no better off than those in the south. Go figure that one..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sausage Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 19 minutes ago, Aristotle said: That's correct. It was not a primary reason at all. I don't know which war you're talking about but I'm talking about the US Civil War. I seriously doubt a pair of trailer trash have more knowledge about US history or the US Civil War than I do just because they are great great grandchildren of some Confederate general that they never even met. I had a great grandfather in the Second Boer War but it doesn't mean I know more than the average person about that war or its history. https://www.civilwar.org/learn/articles/civil-war-facts Hmm add a Pulitzer prize winning author to your long list of stupid idiots then....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sausage Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said: Some posters on here need a bit of a history lesson. Racism in America wasn't and isn't confined to the South. I may have missed the post smuj.....who said it was ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, sausage said: https://www.civilwar.org/learn/articles/civil-war-facts Hmm add a Pulitzer prize winning author to your long list of stupid idiots then....... Thank you <COUGH> for providing us with a fine specimen <COUGH> of the old argumentum ad verecundiam logical fallacy. The author is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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